Buckshot vs Birdshot for HD . . . Here we go again.

[AAShooter]

LOL I don't think I could give the guy credit for anything. It would have been one thing using birdshot had he been in his trailer shooting someone coming in, but taking off after the guy with nothing but a double barrel and birdshot? I'm not a good judge of distance on that video, but it looked like the distance he was shooting at the guy was pretty far.

. . . especially because he knew the guy was armed and already made threats.

[SacTown]

LOL I don't think I could give the guy credit for anything. It would have been one thing using birdshot had he been in his trailer shooting someone coming in, but taking off after the guy with nothing but a double barrel and birdshot? I'm not a good judge of distance on that video, but it looked like the distance he was shooting at the guy was pretty far.

Not advocating what he did. Just commending him for protecting his property with what he had at the time. I wouldn't ever have done what he did but that was his choice.

[jdben92883]

I like the Ranger 3-segment slugs. I subordinate over-penetration to stopping power. With that said, both slugs and buckshot are going to go through drywall/plywood. Shot placement is important regardless of what is used. I'd rather be responsible for one massive projectile than nine smaller ones.

[bsg]

http://toprightnews.com/?p=1715

he run what he brung. he's fortunate he lived to fight another day.

[BCDavis]

One thing I found interesting about those ballistic gel tests, is that most of the pellets, even buckshot, stopped in the gel. So if you train, and can hit your target, there is very little chance of injuring anyone else, if you hit what you are aiming at.

[SacTown]

One thing I found interesting about those ballistic gel tests, is that most of the pellets, even buckshot, stopped in the gel. So if you train, and can hit your target, there is very little chance of injuring anyone else, if you hit what you are aiming at.

I agree completely and in the end what is more important? ending the imminent threat that could very well kill you or worrying about the minimal chances of "over-penetration". I'll go with the former.

[Saym14]

Originally Posted by Kokopelli View Post
. . . At distances over 7 yards, I don't want to defend why I had to shoot someone so far away. . .

wow! I would hate to let anyone closer. I guy with a knife can get to you and stab you faster then you could draw a pistol and shoot. If you have a shotgun by the time you decide to shoot the bad guy could have a hold of the end of it

[elSquid]

wow! I would hate to let anyone closer. I guy with a knife can get to you and stab you faster then you could draw a pistol and shoot. If you have a shotgun by the time you decide to shoot the bad guy could have a hold of the end of it

-- Michael

[Kokopelli]

wow! I would hate to let anyone closer. I guy with a knife can get to you and stab you faster then you could draw a pistol and shoot. If you have a shotgun by the time you decide to shoot the bad guy could have a hold of the end of it

Google crime stats of the average distance in actual shootings. It's within 7 yards. It's unfortunate but many shootings happen at a very short distance.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=400947

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=394122

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill

[Socalman]

My HD load in my Mossberg is #4 buck. Has plenty of penetration to stop and the higher number of pellets means that if I am SLIGHTLY off target I may get some pellets on the perp.

[JagerDog]

I got hit with a full charge of 3" 20g copper plated #5's at point blank range. They penetrated the depth to be expected (about 4") and I have ~100 still in me. Without quite good first aid, I would've bled to death. I could've returned fire for quite some time after. I don't want the BG to be able to return fire. I'm not interested in whether he succumbs to his wounds. I'm interested that he can no longer attack or effectively defend.

No, it wasn't my head or center mass. I doubt I would've survived buckshot. My femoral artery would've been a total mess at minimum. In an HD situation, I don't want to be restricted to head shots. Seems rather limiting. An ugly relatively shallow wound doesn't sound much better. BG isn't likely to make it easy for you. I always find it a bit comical that some will presume a headshot or CofM, yet out of the other side of their mouth be concerned with over-penetration of missed rounds.

There's FBI minimum penetration standards (to account for less than ideal presentations) and exhaustive tests indicating anything smaller than #1 buck doesn't achieve that. However in 20g #3 buck is far more common and likely almost as effective in all but the most difficult presentations.

[ChuckDizzle]

My HD load in my Mossberg is #4 buck. Has plenty of penetration to stop and the higher number of pellets means that if I am SLIGHTLY off target I may get some pellets on the perp.

While #4 is a great choice the idea that spread patterns vary wildly between shot loads is a myth. It might spread a little more than 00 on the edge of the maximum effective range for either, but within your home the pattern between the two would likely be almost indiscernible.

[AAShooter]

I got hit with a full charge of 3" 20g copper plated #5's at point blank range. They penetrated the depth to be expected (about 4") and I have ~100 still in me. Without quite good first aid, I would've bled to death. . .

Ouch! Thanks for sharing your experience.

[ElDub1950]

While #4 is a great choice the idea that spread patterns vary wildly between shot loads is a myth. It might spread a little more than 00 on the edge of the maximum effective range for either, but within your home the pattern between the two would likely be almost indiscernible.

A lot of people seem to throw out that the expected spread is about 1 inch per yard of distance. Actual test show it's closer to half that spread.

This test with a typical defensive shotgun shows a 4" pattern at 7 yards, and only a 5" pattern at 15 yards. ymmv

http://www.realpolice.net/forums/firearms-4/27706-shotgun-spread-patterns-pics.html

[AAShooter]

A lot of people seem to throw out that the expected spread is about 1 inch per yard of distance. Actual test show it's closer to half that spread.

This test with a typical defensive shotgun shows a 4" pattern at 7 yards, and only a 5" pattern at 15 yards. ymmv
http://www.realpolice.net/forums/fir...erns-pics.html

It varies considerably depending on how the gun is set up and the ammo used. I know in my shotgun between to brands of 00 buck I can get twice the spread of one brand compared to the other.