Remington CFC unsafe?

[sofbak]

I'm not a shotgunner, but when I saw this I wondered if any CG'ers were aware of this or had any experiences like these:

http://rockcenter.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/11/11148671-owners-of-some-remington-shotguns-rifles-claim-pattern-of-inadvertent-discharges?lite

Sorry if this is a dupe, I searched and didn't find anything, but I don't peruse the shotgun forum much at all.

be safe

sofbak

[aippi]

Typical mess against a large company with money. And no, you will not find anyone who had this experience. Can something like that happen, of course it can when common safety is not followed with any weapon. Who saw it just fall. He could have set it on the top of vehicle and not telling the truth. The fact that they settled means nothing as all large companies settle nusence suits as it is cheaper then attorny fees.

Did you read the article? That was before you were even born I bet. With over 10 million of the 870's alone out there this reporter digs up how many AD's involving this weapon and puts it in print? Same fire control in the 1100 11-87 and some rifles so add a million or so more. Same on all the 870 clones out there so add a couple hundred thousand more.

Then you post it on a shotgun blog. Sad. Add the fact it is MSNBC and I had to clean the puke off my key board just so I could respond to this mess. If the people at MSNBC had their way you would not even be allowed to own a gun and O'bama would be appointed King for life.

[BigDogatPlay]

It's almost comical to read that article after all the hub-bub with Remington 700 triggers over the past couple of years... much of which was ramrodded by NBC / MSNBC. They are trying to fan another faux controversy.

I've owned several 870s and 1100s, as well as many other Remingtons, over the years and not one of them has ever just gone off.

[Kodemonkey]

You know, if a loaded shotgun fell over it could have fell on some rocks in the dirt and knocked off the safety and hit the trigger. Odds are pretty darn low but it could happen. Length of trigger pull on a shotgun isn't like a DA revolver.

You are probably safe if you don't lay loaded shotguns up against your truck. Or just get one of these http://www.magnetguncaddy.com/ (and unload the damn gun!)

The whole thing reeks of; "I effed up and left a loaded shotgun up against the truck with the safety OFF, it fell and I got shot so I will go sue the manufacturer."

[prc77]

The guy that got injured says he did nothing wrong. Other than not clearing his weapon, he's right.

[BigDogatPlay]

The guy that got injured says he did nothing wrong. Other than not clearing his weapon, he's right.

Agreed... if we assume his account is 100% correct and factual. More often the truth lies somewhere in between.

[2nd Shot]

Reminds me of the 1911 guy that shot himself in the leg due to poor trigger finger discipline, said just about as much, then later went on a crusade against Serpa 2 holsters. When it comes down to it, some people can't bear the humiliation that follows making a mistake you can't hide, and will resort to doing things like blaming inanimate objects for poor decisions or assumptions made that didn't turn out so well.

I dunno about you guys, but I don't let any gun out of my hands with one in the chamber, unless it's specifically being kept ready in a place where it can't fall off of something or move to where the muzzle is pointing a dangerous direction.

[aippi]

[QUOTE=2nd Shot;8393476]Reminds me of the 1911 guy that shot himself in the leg due to poor trigger finger discipline, said just about as much, then later went on a crusade against Serpa 2 holsters. When it comes down to it, some people can't bear the humiliation that follows making a mistake you can't hide, and will resort to doing things like blaming inanimate objects for poor decisions or assumptions made that didn't turn out so well.

I could not have made a better observation about how this mess gets started. I like to threw my neck out shaking my head "Yes" as I read it. Few people accept responsibilty for their actions. It is always someone else fault or something else. Very well put there 2nd Shot.

[TangoCharlie]

Like others have said, I think truth exists in the middle.

The low units-to-issue ratio could simply reflect the complexity in reproducing a legitimate condition. It does not disprove the issue.

I'm embarrassed at how Remington is handling the situation. This is a product safety issue, or at least a perceived product safety issue. You handle this with transparency to restore consumer confidence, you divulge what you know about the issue, prove the engineering and show a sincere willingness to improve it. Unfortunately, they're treating this as a political attack, posting what are full-fledged propaganda videos on their newly created website. Attacks on the experts, attacks on the network and journalists, attacks on the victims, flowery testimonials of consumer satisfaction and company tradition, none of this addresses the issue in question and this lack of focus makes them look nervous and deceptive.

NBC has quite a lot of substantiation behind the story. Remington offers nothing to counter.

On the other hand, I was wondering why NBC did not go buy an 870 -or several- off the shelf somewhere and test the claim for themselves...

[aippi]

They are treating it as what it is. Did you think because we won three big 2nd ammendment case that the left was going to just go away? There is no safety issue with the 870 as over 10 million of them have proved over 60 years. There are people that don't want you to own a gun. If they can attack the manufacturers and make them spend money defending Bull **** claims, that cost is passed down to you. Make owning guns so costly, make ammo so costly and hard to get, and they are keeping guns out of the hands of many. The guys in CA, MA, NY and IL understand this.

I am a Criminal Defense Investigator. For every "Expert" the Prosecution can produce, we can produce one to give an opposite opinion on some evidence. Same with this mess so why would Remington even want to go there on some Bull **** claim? If this BS goes to court then that is another reason to keep still as tipping your hand to the plaintiff is not smart. They will show this for what it is for those of you to blind to see.

I know as much about the 870 as anyone on this forum. I know it is a safe weapon and this mess is pure dung.

[TangoCharlie]

They are treating it as what it is. Did you think because we won three big 2nd ammendment case that the left was going to just go away? There is no safety issue with the 870 as over 10 million of them have proved over 60 years. There are people that don't want you to own a gun. If they can attack the manufacturers and make them spend money defending Bull **** claims, that cost is passed down to you. Make owning guns so costly, make ammo so costly and hard to get, and they are keeping guns out of the hands of many. The guys in CA, MA, NY and IL understand this.

I am a Criminal Defense Investigator. For every "Expert" the Prosecution can produce, we can produce one to give an opposite opinion on some evidence. Same with this mess so why would Remington even want to go there on some Bull **** claim? If this BS goes to court then that is another reason to keep still as tipping your hand to the plaintiff is not smart. They will show this for what it is for those of you to blind to see.

I know as much about the 870 as anyone on this forum. I know it is a safe weapon and this mess is pure dung.

I understand your points very well and I understand public relations even better. I think Remington has played their hand with galactic stupidity. Remington has made it purely political where it was not before. NBC framed this as a product defect issue, not a "rights" issue or a violence issue, not even as a 2nd Amendment issue. They did very well in fact. The victims seem credible, the documentation appears legit, the experts knowledgeable. Remington should have maintained that context until someone else changed it. Instead they answered preemptively -with a website and content that likely took weeks to create- before the segment could even appear to be digested and considered, making their response seem almost irrational. They attack the experts' motivation, despite it being reasonably defensible, without addressing the purely engineering issue on every relevant viewer's mind, which is "Is my 870 safe?"

They would have been better off not responding at all or falling back on a "no comment" response.

If Remington were a homeowner, then they just shot the burglar in the burglar's own house...

[bjl333]

A five-month investigation by Rock Center has uncovered 125 incidents

125 out of 20 million ... Thats 0.00000625%!!! Just goes to prove there are always someone out there stirring up the shieeet!!!

Yes, Remington could've handled it better, but with stats like that its hard to justify handling anything at all!!

BTW, rifles and shotguns combined, my dad & I have/had over 15 of these unsafe CFC guns!!

[TangoCharlie]

125 out of 20 million ... Thats 0.00000625%!!! Just goes to prove there are always someone out there stirring up the shieeet!!!

I think the point is that if it is a design defect, then it's a design defect that exists in all 20 million guns. A landmine waiting to be stepped on. 125 lucky winners have discovered the secret, maybe you can too. That's the angle here.

In all seriousness, Remington does not appear credible right now, they appear to be pivoting like a politician in a debate going horribly wrong.

I wish they didn't because I own two 870s...

[CelticRanger]

I think the point is that if it is a design defect, then it's a design defect that exists in all 20 million guns. A landmine waiting to be stepped on. 125 lucky winners have discovered the secret, maybe you can too. That's the angle here.

In all seriousness, Remington does not appear credible right now, they appear to be pivoting like a politician in a debate going horribly wrong.

I wish they didn't because I own two 870s...

Careful, don't want you to step on you're own landmines. I'll take them off your hands for you.

[aippi]

Well There Tango get rid of those two unsafe weapons fast. Even if you have to take $20 each for them, that is better then getting killed from an unsafe weapon. List them here in the trader and some calgunner will step forward and save you from the evil Corporation building these dangerous weapons.

Your comment about a design defect is the point...........THERE IS NOT ONE...... and any gun owner with more then an once of gun knowledge knows this. It is only the very gullible that can be influenced by a 'SMEAR' piece from an anti second amendment bunch like NBC and their affiliates and you there Tango are their Target and from your post it looks like they got a bulls eye.

Hate to pick on you Tango but you fell for that mess and that is the only point. If you can fall for that mess from NBC then you can fall for mess from the people they support like, well, you know who.