Testing OO Buck for HD - Need Advice

[NeenachGuy]

I'm planning on doing some testing of different rounds in my 870 tactical this weekend (weather and wife permitting). I'm hoping to determine which one works the best in my shotgun for HD purposes. Below are the brands that I bought already; are there others that I should include in my test?

• Federal LE Tactical Full Power 9 pell. OO Buck (12ga., 2 3/4")
• Winchester Ranger Full Power 9 pell. OO Buck (12ga., 2 3/4")
• Remington 9 pell. OO Buck (12ga., 2 3/4")
• Hornady TAP FPD 8 pell. OO Buck (12 ga., 2 3/4")

I'm planning to shoot each of these 3 times from two different positions: 5 yards and 15 yards, but I'm not sure if these distances make sense, or whether I should test more rounds of each brand from each of the distances in my test?

Also, I've read that the FliteControl (Federal) and VersaTite (Hornady) are negatively impacted by ported chokes, but I'm not sure how adversely these will be impacted with my current set-up (I have the "tactocool" ported choke that came with my 870)... Should I get a different choke tube to mix into this test as well? If so, what do you recommend, and how much of a difference should I expect to see at the distances being tested here?

BTW - I'm new to shotguns (this is my first one), so any other tips/advice you may have on ammo selection would be appreciated. I want to test all of my candidates before I make my big ammo buy.

[alfred1222]

I think you have a good setup and a good plan. just go see what your shotgun likes the best. remember, it isnt just the pattern. you need to consider recoil and range as well, and since you have a family, think about if they could shoot the shotgun accurately in a HD situation. i use the Hornady TAP in my HD shotgun and i love it.

[delisle]

Choke tubes are really a non issue at that distance. Also how close are your neighbors? 00 buck does have some pretty heavy penetration and you might want to consider a differant shot size if you dont want to blast your neighbor along with a bad guy. I personally use #8 shot in my pump shotgun. Usually the sound of a pump shotgun will do all of the work for HD and in the event you do have to shoot #8 shot will do the trick if the need arises.

[NeenachGuy]

Choke tubes are really a non issue at that distance. Also how close are your neighbors? 00 buck does have some pretty heavy penetration and you might want to consider a differant shot size if you dont want to blast your neighbor along with a bad guy. I personally use #8 shot in my pump shotgun. Usually the sound of a pump shotgun will do all of the work for HD and in the event you do have to shoot #8 shot will do the trick if the need arises.

My nearest neighbor is about 1.5 miles away (at least), so I'm not too worried about over-penetration, although there's probably more repair work to do on my own home if I shoot a wall or something. I'll take a look at the #8 shot as per your suggestion. Thanks!

Oh, one more thing I forgot to ask... The Hornady TAP rounds have only 8 pellets... I thought it was kind of strange, and can't imagine that one less pellet would make much of a difference, can it?

[wildhawker]

First, are you limiting to 00 for some reason? There are compelling cases to be made for e.g. #1 buckshot for indoor defensive use.

Second, this is 2012, right? That we still see the "racking my shotgun will scare 'em away" theory rearing it's ugly and dangerously-wrong head is proof positive we have much [education] work to do within our community.

-Brandon

[prc77]

disregard #8 shot for HD,

keep doing your thing with the 00 buck test.
Finding out for yourself. what patterns the best out of your shotgun is something every one should do.

[NeenachGuy]

First, are you limiting to 00 for some reason? There are compelling cases to be made for e.g. #1 buckshot for indoor defensive use.

Second, this is 2012, right? That we still see the "racking my shotgun will scare 'em away" theory rearing it's ugly and dangerously-wrong head is proof positive we have much [education] work to do within our community.

No particular reason for limiting to OO buck... TBH, that's just what I've seen being used in the threads and YouTube vids that I've watched. Regarding racking the slide to scare away bad guys... that always seemed like a ridiculously bad idea. I figure the people who are scared by that sound weren't a serious threat to begin with.

[Richard Erichsen]

I'm planning on doing some testing of different rounds in my 870 tactical this weekend (weather and wife permitting). I'm hoping to determine which one works the best in my shotgun for HD purposes. Below are the brands that I bought already; are there others that I should include in my test?

• Federal LE Tactical Full Power 9 pell. OO Buck (12ga., 2 3/4")
• Winchester Ranger Full Power 9 pell. OO Buck (12ga., 2 3/4")
• Remington 9 pell. OO Buck (12ga., 2 3/4")
• Hornady TAP FPD 8 pell. OO Buck (12 ga., 2 3/4")

I'm planning to shoot each of these 3 times from two different positions: 5 yards and 15 yards, but I'm not sure if these distances make sense, or whether I should test more rounds of each brand from each of the distances in my test?

Also, I've read that the FliteControl (Federal) and VersaTite (Hornady) are negatively impacted by ported chokes, but I'm not sure how adversely these will be impacted with my current set-up (I have the "tactocool" ported choke that came with my 870)... Should I get a different choke tube to mix into this test as well? If so, what do you recommend, and how much of a difference should I expect to see at the distances being tested here?

BTW - I'm new to shotguns (this is my first one), so any other tips/advice you may have on ammo selection would be appreciated. I want to test all of my candidates before I make my big ammo buy.

Trying shells from several makers is always a good idea, but the only shell you have there that is really appropriate for HD is the TAP. Also, your max range is an inner hunting range, well outside (more than double) and HD range. If you want to do any 15 yard tests, I suggest you bracket your HD work first at under 7 yards and with whatever remaining time you have do your testing beyond 10 yards. If you run out of time, you'll still get the important part of this testing done.

The LE oriented shells are almost always reduced recoil and may have less flash and blast as well, important in a closed space in the dark. Hunting benefits from full power loads, even magnums, HD does not.

I would ditch that ported choke, it won't make the recoil pulse any different but will kick burning propellent into your sight picture. In the day time, this won't matter, at night it could cost you that much longer for your night vision to return if a followup shot is needed. The best choke for a typical 3-7 yard is either none at all, or an IC choke. The spread at these distances is golf ball size to not much greater than the bottom of a soda can from a cylinder bore.

R

[aippi]

If you understand the facts, with the fact being that most all break ins are by thieves who think you are gone and these people are seldom armed. You will then understand that Home Defense is not like the final scene in the Movie "Scarface" and yes, calling out who is there and racking a shotgun and telling them you are on the phone with the police will make 99.999999999999999999999% of them burst out the door or nearest window.

So announcing yourself and your intent is not a theory. It works and it is the smart thing to do.

The dumb thing to do is to go to your closet and put your Tactical Vest on and grab your weapon just to go sneaking out into the house where you are most likely going to get jumped because you scared the hell out of some punk who thought you were not home. He painics, jumps you and cracks you fool head open because your forgot your Kevlar Helment back in the closet. The perp runs away which is exactly what he would do had you simply called out and scared him off with the period mark being the sound a pump being racked or a slide being released.

Occupied home invasions by armed perps are extremely rare and even in large cities they are rare. Most are drug rip offs or other criminal type activities. They are so rare they always make the news and that can make one think there are more then there are.

So, if you are not a drug dealer or known to keep large amounts of cash in your home then the chances this can happen to you are minute. HOWEVER, single women living alone are at a different risk and we all understand why but even these incidents are not as common as you would think and their best response would be to lock thier bedroom door, pick up their weapon, call out "I am armed and on the phone with the Police and rack that shotgun". The next sound will be the front or back door slamming.

[Richard Erichsen]

Choke tubes are really a non issue at that distance. Also how close are your neighbors? 00 buck does have some pretty heavy penetration and you might want to consider a differant shot size if you dont want to blast your neighbor along with a bad guy. I personally use #8 shot in my pump shotgun. Usually the sound of a pump shotgun will do all of the work for HD and in the event you do have to shoot #8 shot will do the trick if the need arises.

I disagree on both counts. The sound of a pump shotgun being racked won't necessarily be audible depending on where in your home or immediately outside of a door or window the perp may be. Sane house robbers don't generally seek out homes likely to have inhabitants, and the sound of movement within the home is what may cause them to retreat. Mentally unsound types won't necessarily even respond to the sudden appearance of a weapon in the hands of an aggressive home owner. You should already have called 911 or be in the process of doing so by the time you have a weapon at the ready and are executing on your emergency plan to move family members to a central location. Yelling out an order or a warning is prudent, your shotgun isn't as good at that.

I also disagree with the use of #8 shot. All of the data collected over the last 25 years shows that the best one shot stops are for 00 buckshot (close to 100% of the time), #1 buckshot (close to 100% of the time) and #4 buckshot (about 85% of the time). Birdshot is great for practice and effective on birds and small game, but not large mammals of either the four legged or two legged variety. The recommended penetration in soft tissue to accomplish a one shot stop is at least 12" - birdshot is not capable of providing reliable penetration to that depth in order to reach vital structures with any consistency.

R

[wjc]

#4 or #5 might be enough for HD. It's less penetration than 00 but still might be good as a deterent without punching big holes in your walls.

ObDisclainer: I've never tested this but I know these rounds work well on turkeys.

[NeenachGuy]

If you understand the facts, with the fact being that most all break ins are by thieves who think you are gone and these people are seldom armed. You will then understand that Home Defense is not like the final scene in the Movie "Scarface" and yes, calling out who is there and racking a shotgun and telling them you are on the phone with the police will make 99.999999999999999999999% of them burst out the door or nearest window.

So announcing yourself and your intent is not a theory. It works and it is the smart thing to do.

The dumb thing to do is to go to your closet and put your Tactical Vest on and grab your weapon just to go sneaking out into the house where you are most likely going to get jumped because you scared the hell out of some punk who thought you were not home. He painics, jumps you and cracks you fool head open because your forgot your Kevlar Helment back in the closet. The perp runs away which is exactly what he would do had you simply called out and scared him off with the period mark being the sound a pump being racked or a slide being released.

Occupied home invasions by armed perps are extremely rare and even in large cities they are rare. Most are drug rip offs or other criminal type activities. They are so rare they always make the news and that can make one think there are more then there are.

So, if you are not a drug dealer or known to keep large amounts of cash in your home then the chances this can happen to you are minute. HOWEVER, single women living alone are at a different risk and we all understand why but even these incidents are not as common as you would think and their best response would be to lock thier bedroom door, pick up their weapon, call out "I am armed and on the phone with the Police and rack that shotgun". The next sound will be the front or back door slamming.

So, which ammo should I test?

[NYCShooter]

LE132 00 is what I use, but I am planning on moving to LE132 1B as soon as it becomes available.

[hella agg]

Federal Tactical low recoil 00 buck, 8 pellet if you want the lowest recoil. It is affected by chokes at longer distance though. Most testing I have seen has shown that in this loading, the pattern widens with choke use... I believe it has something to do with the wad design.

[greent]

#8 shot is horrible advice. Also, I keep a shell in the chamber in my shotgun, that way I can be more occupied with calling the police, yelling at the criminal, gathering family, all without giving away your location if you don't want it given away. I would also like to have one more round available to me in my already round limited home defense weapon.
As far as testing your ammo...Great idea, test as many different rounds as you can find (all buckshot) #1 buck has been lab tested to have the fbi recc. 12in. of penetration with as small of shot possible (so you can have as much trauma as possible). Really though, pick any brand # 4-00 buck shells that pattern well in your gun and be familiar with the pattern so you know where your pellets are going. Remember, you shotgun will have a unique pattern with a specific brand and shot size, don't change it up without further testing and familiarization. Good luck, have fun!