Can birdshots kill humans effectively?

[ajl2121]

Hey all...I have a mossberg 500 for home defense. The fellas at Turner's sold me 75 rounds of birdshots for home defense (7 and a half). They swear by it. I went to the range, and these pellets are small! Can they effectively kill an intruder if it were to come to that? They claim that 00 bucks will over penetrate the walls and neighbors...I live in a single family detached, and find it hard to believe that it would penetrate my walls to the exterior and repentrate my neighbors to the interior...Any thoughts?

[M. Sage]

No, it can't. It'll make a really nasty-looking wound, but it'll only be about 1/2" deep.

Get some buckshot and tell them they're idiots.

ETA: So I exaggerated a bit. Looks like it's good for *maybe* two inches:

http://www.tacticalshotgun.ca/content_nonsub/gelatin_testing/bird_8_heavy_dove/gelatin_shot_8.html

Two inches is ten inches too few. The people who told you that are still idiots.

[fireblast713]

At close range birdshot can kill... and sense most home confrontations take place at close range, I suppose you could use birdshot, even if you don't kill them it sure as hell won't tickle. Personally I think 7 1/2 is too small, I'd go with buckshot though.

[Quiet]

Birdshot can kill humans.

Won't be very effective (might take more than 1 round) and it'll be very messy.

IMO, use buckshot.

[M. Sage]

At close range birdshot can kill... and sense most home confrontations take place at close range, I suppose you could use birdshot, even if you don't kill them it sure as hell won't tickle. Personally I think 7 1/2 is too small, I'd go with buckshot though.

Can as in "maybe." Look at the data with that ballistic gel test: the range was 3 yards. Getting closer isn't going to help. Personally, I would consider 7 1/2 as too light for rabbits (I'd go with about a 6.) Realize, too, that gelatin simulates flesh, not bone. That birdshot isn't going through 3 inches of flesh AND bone.

There's no way I'd bet my life on birdshot in a life-or-death situation.

Scroll 3/4 of the way down this page for the gelatin tests:

http://www.tacticalshotgun.ca/ballistics_shotgun.html

I agree with them: Go #4 buck at minimum.

[wilit]

Considering Cheney blasted his 80+ year old buddy in the head with no serious damage, I'm going to say it's probably better to use buckshot.

[AJAX22]

From my own trials (actually testing the penetration of various shotgun loads on different midevil shields)

birdshot has a nasty punch inside about an 8 foot range, (I atribute this to the shot wad holding the birdshot in place when it impacts)

If the shot wad has time to seperate from the shot, then it won't penetrate even a medium thickness of reinforced leather, and at 20 feet or so, you'd be lucky to do more than scuff the hide.

the absolute smallest round I would use for home defense is REMINGTON DUPLEX , composed of #4 and #6 coper jacketed shot.

This stuff is nasty, lethal, and has minimal overpenetration in my experiance.

[ajl2121]

At least i didn't spend too much money on the birdshots...I can still use them at the range. I guess if someone breaks in before I get some better rounds, I'd better use my .45...Unless, I should always opt for my HK USP .45 over my mossberg???

[Mssr. Eleganté]

From my own trials (actually testing the penetration of various shotgun loads on different midevil shields)

Getting ready for something?

[AJAX22]

Getting ready for something?

Lol, kinda I have a friend who makes armor and he wanted to know what the effects were of various ammunition on his product.

So I volunteered the services of my boomstick.

besides you never know when you'll be reading the wrong book and be instantly transported into the past where you'll have to battle the undead.

[gunrun45]

Living in an urban environment that has thin interior walls and other (innocent) subjects on the other side of that VERY thin (depending on year of manufacture) wall...if this is you, go with bird shot. Most shootings happen within 8 feet anyway.

I live in a very rural area and stoke my boom stick with double OO buck and slugs for LARGE things that go bump in the night

Obviously OO buck will do a better job in stopping a threat. The question isn't what will happen IF you hit him, its what might happen IF you miss
First issue: know your surroundings
Second issue: Know your weapon.

If you have an indoor range that will allow you to dim the lights, turn them way down and test yourself to see how you load and point aim a shotgun in the dark. Want to get real? Try it with a flashlight in your support hand. Watch you toes!! You might loose a few, even with dove load

[bear308]

#4 buck, best HD round out there for compact surroundings

less overpenatration, but no issues with pen at 40 yrds or less

[ybz]

Getting ready for something?

"Alright you primitive screw-heads, listen up. See this? This is my boomstick! It's a 12-gauge double-barreled Remington. S-Mart's top of the line. You can find this in the sporting goods department. That's right, this sweet baby was made in Grand Rapids, Michigan; retails for about one hundred nine, ninety-five. It's got a walnut stock, cobalt blue steel, and a hair trigger. That's right, shop smart, shop S-Mart!"

[the_natterjack]

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm , Shotgun penetration tests.

[markymark]

At least i didn't spend too much money on the birdshots...I can still use them at the range. I guess if someone breaks in before I get some better rounds, I'd better use my .45...Unless, I should always opt for my HK USP .45 over my mossberg???

I like to use birdshot at the range. More shooting for less money. I'll shoot a few rounds of buckshot too though to remind me of the difference in recoil.