...

[Jpach]

Good point. I wouldn't want to put my life in a cops hands.

I guess the better idea would be to pull my glock (not pointed at him but in my hands pointing down in case the intruder advances on you) and walk backwards into my house while keeping my eyes on him.

Any perceived problems with that reaction?

Busting out the glock and taking cover would probably be the wisest idea.

Citizens arrest is way too mall ninja and internet commando. Thats just not gonna happen, nor would you want it to as you dont have training in detaining someone anyways.

IMHO it could be justifiable to shoot him if he hopped the fence and was running at you in an agressive manner. Either way, do your best not to shoot if he doesnt have a weapon. But sometimes, you gata do what you gata do. Just be sure its an "Either its you or me" type situation before you pull that trigger. Or else.

[Grumpyoldretiredcop]

Good point. I wouldn't want to put my life in a cops hands.

I guess the better idea would be to pull my glock (not pointed at him but in my hands pointing down in case the intruder advances on you) and walk backwards into my house while keeping my eyes on him.

Any perceived problems with that reaction?

Only one. If deadly force isn't justified, you have no business exposing your weapon. Consider the hypothetical that I proposed. You don't want to be standing, backing, or whatever, with a weapon in hand. Be prepared to draw, withdraw into the house (and your thought about keeping an eye on him is very good), try to observe everything you can about him, lock the door and get on the phone.

[butch952]

Only one. If deadly force isn't justified, you have no business exposing your weapon. Consider the hypothetical that I proposed. You don't want to be standing, backing, or whatever, with a weapon in hand. Be prepared to draw, withdraw into the house (and your thought about keeping an eye on him is very good), try to observe everything you can about him, lock the door and get on the phone.

You are 100% correct Sir. No need to overreact in this situation.

[Grumpyoldretiredcop]

Busting out the glock and taking cover would probably be the wisest idea.

You may want to read my prior post again.

Citizens arrest is way too mall ninja and internet commando. Thats just not gonna happen, nor would you want it to as you dont have training in detaining someone anyways.

True and well said.

IMHO it could be justifiable to shoot him if he hopped the fence and was running at you in an agressive manner. Either way, do your best not to shoot if he doesnt have a weapon.

Your statements here are mutually contradictory. It's either justifiable to shoot if he is "running at you in an aggressive manner" or it's "do your best not to shoot if he doesn't have a weapon". The second statement is closer to correct. It is possible to justify deadly force without an attacker displaying a deadly weapon, but you MUST articulate the factors that would place a reasonable person in reasonable fear of death, great bodily harm, or injury. As the Penal Code puts it, "bare fear is not sufficient". In the scenario as described in the OP, absent any other factors, deadly force is NOT justified just because an attacker is "running at you in an aggressive manner".

[Wherryj]

it was just buler - just thank god he didn't stop and introduce himself to your wife and daughter

Do you mean Ferris Bueller?

[nrakid88]

Only one. If deadly force isn't justified, you have no business exposing your weapon. Consider the hypothetical that I proposed. You don't want to be standing, backing, or whatever, with a weapon in hand. Be prepared to draw, withdraw into the house (and your thought about keeping an eye on him is very good), try to observe everything you can about him, lock the door and get on the phone.

Why would I not be justified in "exposing my weapon"? I train the best I can afford to, but if my gun is holstered and he charges for me, I won't be able to get off a shot before he gets to me (small backyard), and then he could potentially use my firearm against me. I do loaded open carry usually, using a serpa holster, so my weapon would be already exposed before I drew it from the holster.

In that situation he trespassed onto my property exposing himself as a potential risk to my life and to my loved ones. I disagree with you. I don't see anything wrong with being ready to respond to a threat, no reason to give yourself a handicap you can't overcome.

And if a cop shoots me on my property just because I have a pistol in my hand pointing directly towards the ground while a trespasser is on my property, I will own a small part of my city as a result of the lawsuit, or my family will own it if the cop is a good shot.

By the way, I really appreciate your constructive criticism.

[nrakid88]

You may want to read my prior post again.



True and well said.



Your statements here are mutually contradictory. It's either justifiable to shoot if he is "running at you in an aggressive manner" or it's "do your best not to shoot if he doesn't have a weapon". The second statement is closer to correct. It is possible to justify deadly force without an attacker displaying a deadly weapon, but you MUST articulate the factors that would place a reasonable person in reasonable fear of death, great bodily harm, or injury. As the Penal Code puts it, "bare fear is not sufficient". In the scenario as described in the OP, absent any other factors, deadly force is NOT justified just because an attacker is "running at you in an aggressive manner".

Isn't someone charging for you reasonable fear for your life? Espescially since I open carry, he knows I have a gun, and still is attacking me, which means he is serious about his attack. His fists are weapons, and if he is good with them, he can use my weapon against me. I would call that reasonable fear for my life.

Even without the "he can use my gun against me" argument, I train with firearms, I work out to stay in shape, but I have never been in a fist fight, and don't practice marshal arts. How am I supposed to assume I will be safe if I engage in a fight with him? People are killed in hand to hand fights every day. He is the one who trespassed, he is the one who charged, he is the one responsible for me protecting myself with my firearm. In no way did I threaten his life, and in a lot of ways he threatened mine.

[turbosbox]

Hi all, one of my very close friends just gave me a call today about an very quick incident that occurred in his backyard today. Apparently around 1600 today, there was a suspect who suddenly appeared in his backyard very suspiciously hopping over his backyard fence, once my friend made visual and verbal contact with the suspect yelling at him to stop,the suspect darted jumping over fences to neighboring yards,escaping. My friend fearing for his safety had to run to his room to retrieve his firearms and load it up, specifically his 12 gauge! Above all, gladly nothing happened but he did say he is going to re-think this incident and how slow it took for him to retrieve his firearm and load it! He was saying, it would of been a grim story if this suspect instead of darting away, if the suspect came towards him and broke into his home, my friend would of said he doesn't know if he would of had time to get his weapon and load it! So this got me thinking, always have a handy firearm lock and loaded under immediate control, above all this got me thinking also, what do you all say?

Seconds count if a bad guy is on the attack. To the Brady sounding folks who posted above, have you or your family or friends been attacked recently by armed bad guys in Norcal recently? Has your house been burglarized? I can say yes to all of the above, in fact the armed one who attacked my wife was released this week due to lack of evidence, so he will be running through your backyard or into your house in Stanislaus any day now.
Don't forget to hide under your bed and call 911 Self defense is a bad idea and infringes on the rights of the criminal.

A kid hopping the fence to get his ball (which happens to me sometimes) isn't what he saw. It was a person trying to commit or escape from a crime.

Stuff happens, it isn't always your fault. Are you prepared?

[Jpach]

You may want to read my prior post again.



True and well said.



Your statements here are mutually contradictory. It's either justifiable to shoot if he is "running at you in an aggressive manner" or it's "do your best not to shoot if he doesn't have a weapon". The second statement is closer to correct. It is possible to justify deadly force without an attacker displaying a deadly weapon, but you MUST articulate the factors that would place a reasonable person in reasonable fear of death, great bodily harm, or injury. As the Penal Code puts it, "bare fear is not sufficient". In the scenario as described in the OP, absent any other factors, deadly force is NOT justified just because an attacker is "running at you in an aggressive manner".

IMHO I think it would be fine to bust out the glock and guage or analyze the situation. I understand what you are saying about not pulling it out of deadly force is not justified, but how will you IMMEDIATELY know that its not justified? I mean, come on, the guy is jumping in YOUR back yard doing who knows what and COULD be armed and dangerous. That possibility IMHO makes it a no-brainer to pull out your weapon and be ready.

If the guy is sitting there twiddling his thumbs or going to jump the fence ot the next yard, hes not a thread.

If he is running at you in an agressive manner, he likely wants to harm you. He could pull out a knife at the last second, or even try to take your own gun and kill you with it. Do you see where Im going here?

Im not giving legal advice, Im just discussing deeper issues in a very very risky and unfortunate situation to be in.

[Jpach]

Isn't someone charging for you reasonable fear for your life? Espescially since I open carry, he knows I have a gun, and still is attacking me, which means he is serious about his attack. His fists are weapons, and if he is good with them, he can use my weapon against me. I would call that reasonable fear for my life.

Even without the "he can use my gun against me" argument, I train with firearms, I work out to stay in shape, but I have never been in a fist fight, and don't practice marshal arts. How am I supposed to assume I will be safe if I engage in a fight with him? People are killed in hand to hand fights every day. He is the one who trespassed, he is the one who charged, he is the one responsible for me protecting myself with my firearm. In no way did I threaten his life, and in a lot of ways he threatened mine.

Agreed. I dont know if we are "correct" legally but...I definitely agree with your statements.

[hattles]

A Gun ran through ?? In any similar scenario it is better to be prepared and not shoot than to be unprepared, can't shoot and get shot or stabbed.

Call 911.

A gun ran through our backyard, to the street, into the neighbors yard across from us, couldn't get over their fence, came back into our yard, and ran into our backyard to the alley behind us.

I called 911. He was unarmed, made no threatening gestures towards our house or family, didn't try to get inside, nada. I had no reason to shoot him had I been holding a weapon.

Watch. Observe, memorize their description, call 911.

[Notblake]

I carry my g17 around my home daily. I am thinking the responsible thing for me to do would be to pull my glock (not pointing it at him) and say "Stop, I am placing you under citizens arrest". I don't think you should shoot, maybe you would be justified because you were using force to detain, IDK but I wouldn't want to test it in court, or accidentally shoot some innocent tresspassing kid when I think he could be a burglar or rapist or something.

I just think it would suck to find out later that night as I watch the news that some scumbag had run through my yard when I could have stopped him, but I didn't and he ended up murdering someone.

Also doesn't detaining a scum bag kind of put you at risk, since he knows where you live and can talk to his friends on the outside of jail?

Under what penal code are you placing him under arrest? What elements of a crime did you witness that allows you to place him under arrest? Your citizens arrest is not justified, you are now being sued for unlawful seizure, enjoy having your wages garnished.

Seriously guys, you have NONE of the protection that Law Enforcement Officers have. You better have that PC memorized before you go telling people they are under arrest and you better make sure you can prove ALL the elements of the PC that are required to make an arrest, or you are going to be in some SERIOUS legal ****.

Get a good description of the suspect and his actions, you may command him to stop and wait to be arrested, but if he askes you, "Am I under arrest?" you tell him, "NO, you are free to go if you please, I just thought you might want to talk to some nice police officers."

[nrakid88]

Agreed. I dont know if we are "correct" legally but...I definitely agree with your statements.

Well the fact is that the legal standpoint is secondary, protecting your life is primary.

If only we lived in Texas... this wouldn't even be a problem.

[Foriegn power]

Hi all, update from my friend the police never showed up or called back, again this was a 911 call! Most important this was a wake up call he said having newborns and kids wife, at times you forget to plan! During our usual conversations after what happened he will keep a 870 in a discrete location in his most occupied room in his home, when he's home so if this happens again he will be readily to protect his family. Lastly, please cut the argument I hear from some of the responses.

[nrakid88]

Hi all, update from my friend the police never showed up or called back, again this was a 911 call! Most important this was a wake up call he said having newborns and kids wife, at times you forget to plan! During our usual conversations after what happened he will keep a 870 in a discrete location in his most occupied room in his home, when he's home so if this happens again he will be readily to protect his family. Lastly, please cut the argument I hear from some of the responses.

Not surprised they didn't show up. I live in a nice community and as a teenager some bi-polar a--hole whipped out a revolver on me and my friends, then went back to his backyard and fired it! My buddies dad, LAPD, heard the shot and called 911 for us, took four hours for the squad cars to show up.

Just remember, unless there already there, the cops won't be there in time.