HD Shotgun Questions

[deckhandmike]

Op be aware when post in the shotgun forum you get pro shotgun answers. The confirmation bias is not always the best. I’d post your same question in general and you’d be shocked at the different suggestions.

[Monterey Gun]

What do people think about red dots on shotguns?

It would be nice if red dots with circles and dots (like Holoson 507c with 2 MOA dot and 32 MOA circle) could be used to aim both a slug (center dot) and a shotgun pattern (outer circle).

Seems like it would take a lot of ammo testing to get that to work out though.

[Capybara]

Agree.

I have the TS-12, M4, 1301, etc. I like them all, yet the TS-12 has a special place for HD -- it is short and easy to maneuver around tight corners/spaces, it is IWI-reliable, and it holds 15+1 2-3/4 shells. It takes a little getting used to the bull-pop design and rotating magazine tubes, but they worked pretty well after a little practice.

At some point, if I can scrape together the money, I will buy a TS-12. I would have bought it instead of my M&P 12 since I wanted a bullpup but I read wildly inconsistent reports about which brands and types of shells the Tavor was reliable with.

Some people swear that their TS-12 will cycle any and all shells no problem, while many other get FTFs with many types of common shells. To date, the M&P 12 can feed anything I have put through it, Mini Shells, Turkish, Spanish, low brass, high brass, buck, slugs.

How about your TS-12, has it ever had FTF or FTE issues with any ammo?

[Capybara]

What do people think about red dots on shotguns?

It would be nice if red dots with circles and dots (like Holoson 507c with 2 MOA dot and 32 MOA circle) could be used to aim both a slug (center dot) and a shotgun pattern (outer circle).

Seems like it would take a lot of ammo testing to get that to work out though.

If you are over 45, green dot. I have the Holosun 507 C green on my M&P 12 on the ScalarWorks Leap mount. It's a lot of fun, I like green dots, but I haven't zeroed it with slugs, just #4 Buck. Only red dot I have is an Aimpoint Pro on an AR, it's great but I sometimes have problems locating the red dot in bright sunlight especially in comparison to green.

[L84CABO]

What do people think about red dots on shotguns?

It would be nice if red dots with circles and dots (like Holoson 507c with 2 MOA dot and 32 MOA circle) could be used to aim both a slug (center dot) and a shotgun pattern (outer circle).

Seems like it would take a lot of ammo testing to get that to work out though.

On a defensive shotgun I tend to think it's overkill and not necessary. But if you have the cash, have eye problems where it helps, or just like um, then go for it!

[DaveInOroValley]

On a defensive shotgun I tend to think it's overkill and not necessary. But if you have the cash, have eye problems where it helps, or just like um, then go for it!

Have Holosun 507C on my Tavor TS12 and love it.

[Capybara]

I've been slowly converting from an irons traditionalist to loving, in my case, green dots. Not because they are quantitatively better, but they are certainly easier for my older eyes to see and acquire quickly. In sunlight I can see irons no problem. But interiors or darker environments, a green dot is just so much smoother and quicker.

[madland]

My shotguns are in the safe. I keep a 10 round .40 handy for HD. Wife is very good with it.

^^^ Same here. With a TLR-1HL mounted to it. But 15rds.

IMHO..the advantage of pistol vs 12G is you can hold your pistol with one hand..still engage the light if need be..grab your kids and move them to safety..and be on your cell phone calling 911. Try doing all that with your shotgun.

[hambam105]

As a general rule, women, and men, are afraid of shotguns. Heck, 75% of all young healthily strong LE recruits
are absolutely frightened of the mere thought of having to fire a shotgun of any kind.

Mommabear protecting Headquarters with a Gauge is Papabear's nightmare idea, not Mommabear's.

For ground based problems, look to Cowboy Action Shooting. There you will see women using shotguns, for the
most part, successfully. Ask those women what Gauge works, not your beer drinking buddies.

Semiautos, lights, extra ammo carriers, magazine extensions, for your wife, yeah. Does she know about this?

[oddball]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yep.

K.I.S.S.

[W.R.Buchanan]

As a general rule, women, and men, are afraid of shotguns. Heck, 75% of all young healthily strong LE recruits
are absolutely frightened of the mere thought of having to fire a shotgun of any kind.

Mommabear protecting Headquarters with a Gauge is Papabear's nightmare idea, not Mommabear's.

For ground based problems, look to Cowboy Action Shooting. There you will see women using shotguns, for the
most part, successfully. Ask those women what Gauge works, not your beer drinking buddies.

Semiautos, lights, extra ammo carriers, magazine extensions, for your wife, yeah. Does she know about this?

This is because Idiots in the Military and LE think that training with High Base 00 Buck is the only way to train, because that's what they will use in the field? This has been disproven so many times by Civilian Trainers it is pathetic.

Gun Handling is what it is all about.

I recently had a conversation with a Govt Trainer who teaches Coasty's at the Port Hueneme Naval Base.

The only ammo they have is 3" 00 Buckshot. Because that is all the "Procurement Officer" will buy. He said the most any of them would ever shoot the guns in combat would be 1-2 rounds?

I told him that was Absolutely Stoopid, and to try to train a 100 lb. woman to shoot a Mossberg 590 A1 with heavy loads is not going to produce a usable product..

He told me nobody wanted to qualify with the shotgun and all wanted to just shoot M4's. DUH?

I was at my Range which we share with Police Sheriffs and Navy, when the Coasty's were there "qualifying with shotguns." Nothing but 3" shells and they were getting the snot beat out of them. Nobody could hit anything because they were flinching and getting beat every time they pulled a trigger. Nobody was having fun that day until I gifted them 2 boxes of my 12 ga. Trap Reloads which are about the same as the Low Recoil loads sold.

I also showed some of them how to keep there cheeks on the stock so they didn't get smacked in the chops every time. That went over Big Time!

Got news for everyone here. "Gun Handling" is 95% of Tactical Shot Gunning. If you can run the gun, and keep it running, there isn't much more to actually hitting a target at close range. If you can't run the gun or are afraid of it you've been doing something wrong.

I have shot next to several small women in classes and once they got the hang of keeping their heads on the gun they had no problems keeping up with the boys. Most were shooting 12 ga. also.

You train with the Cheapest Birdshot you can find, and only use "Low Recoil Tactical Loads" for the Buck and Slug iterations. And you can extend that last part to Home Defense as well.

The whole idea of training with a Shotgun, other than actually learning to shoot it, is so that you can see just how formidable a Shotgun is as a Combat Weapon.

Save the heavy stuff for your next Polar Bear Hunt!

Randy

[Imageview]

What do people think about red dots on shotguns?

It would be nice if red dots with circles and dots (like Holoson 507c with 2 MOA dot and 32 MOA circle) could be used to aim both a slug (center dot) and a shotgun pattern (outer circle).

Seems like it would take a lot of ammo testing to get that to work out though.

For normal shotgun use (wingshooting, clays) a red dot slows you down and takes more time. This is because you point a shotgun for those uses and a red or green dot is an aiming device. If you?re trying to shoot a target that?s moving at high speeds you?re actually shooting in front of the target. The more you have to think about leads etc. the less likely you are to hit. Shotguns in these uses are very different.

I have dots on 2 shotguns and a combination gun, the shotguns I have them on are primarily intended for turkeys where it is more aiming. The combination gun the shotgun barrel is less important than the rifle barrel, so the dot helps with the rifle but with practice I?ve learned to ignore it for wingshooting.

For home defense at under 10 yards if the shotgun fits and you have a consistent mount aiming should be irrelevant. Just point it and you?ll hit what you?re pointing at. But since in this case we?re talking about 2 different users, it?s not likely that the shotgun will fit both or possibly either shooter. There will be compromises. So a red dot can help, at the cost of some shooting speed. With slugs and engaging targets that aren?t flying at 40mph farther out a red dot can help quite a bit in that case.

What?s best for you? Only you can decide. For home defense purposes in my situation (1000 sq ft building, 2000 sq ft lot, multiple shared walls) a dot would be a hindrance. For someone on a ranch who might have long approaches to their residence something that helps them reach out a bit farther might be appropriate. I shoot shotguns a lot, my shotguns mostly fit me well. And the ones that don?t I?m familiar with and can compensate for how they don?t. Each person needs to figure out what works best for them.

[W.R.Buchanan]

A Red Dot on a shotgun can be a viable alternative for lots of uses. Like wild Boar shooting.

There was a show on the Outdoor Channel called "Wild Boar Fever." it was about shooting driven Boars in Europe with rifles. Every single shooter had a Red Dot Sight and some of them were really good at hitting the running Boars in the neck which brought them don't instantly.

In Europe they have ranges set up specifically to train for this type of shooting and a few sessions at one of these places would make your tactical shooting a lot more effective.

I have been going to mount a Red Dot on one of my Browning A5 Barrels to play with it shooting slugs.

For wing shooting I don't see the use.

Randy

[anthracite]

Thanks again for all the replies. Great information.

When I decide I'll post up what I end up with.

Have a friend that has pump and SA SG's. Didn't know he owned any SG's. We're going to plan a range day so I get some hands on with the two choices.

Looking forward to hearing what you eventually decide on.

What do people think about red dots on shotguns?

It would be nice if red dots with circles and dots (like Holoson 507c with 2 MOA dot and 32 MOA circle) could be used to aim both a slug (center dot) and a shotgun pattern (outer circle).

Seems like it would take a lot of ammo testing to get that to work out though.

On a defensive shotgun I tend to think it's overkill and not necessary. But if you have the cash, have eye problems where it helps, or just like um, then go for it!

As others have mentioned, for home defense (which this thread is based on) I think a red dot is unnecessary. I'd rather have a weapon mounted light for thread identification.

But for my training shotgun, I have a Aimpoint T-2 mounted and it's great for when we are using slugs.

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

Dr Venk: A1301 set up like yours is would now would cost over $2000. The price on the gun is $1799, and there is no "Street Price" since demand is very high.

I don't think he wants to spend that much money starting out.

He really needs to get in the game before he spends lots on money he doesn't have, on something that is going to be of "Limited Use to him." It's not like he's going to use this thing every day, or even every month.

It would be like buying a Ferrari to drive back and forth to the super market, when what you actually need is a Chrysler Mini Van.

Randy

Haven't been able to login for a week.

Setup price is high, but if he is already looking at a Benelli I think he can get more gun for less money.

What do people think about red dots on shotguns?

It would be nice if red dots with circles and dots (like Holoson 507c with 2 MOA dot and 32 MOA circle) could be used to aim both a slug (center dot) and a shotgun pattern (outer circle).

Seems like it would take a lot of ammo testing to get that to work out though.

Not really. You pattern and zero accordingly. Shouldn't take more than 10 shells to zero buckshot and that is with patterning.