HD Shotgun Questions

[cheesyhybrid]

Get a semiautomatic. M4 is a textbook example of “built like a tank”. I dont know about the Beretta so I cannot offer any comparison. I ended up with a versamax tactical that for me handled a lot better than the M4. I just wanted to chime in and advise to ignore all the pump suggestions. Some of these geezer fuds need to get with the times. A semi auto pistol or rifle is ok for hd but your semi shotgun is just going to go tits up when you need it? No. Get the semiautomatic figure out what it likes to run, shoot and train with it and leave the pump actions for collectors or people who cant afford a reputable semiautomatic. And skip all the “clones”. They might feel ok and like the real thing but they are universally garbage. Good luck. Get the m4 or 1301 of your dreams. .

[sfvshooter]

Loading shells into a semi or a pump shotgun tube is pretty much the same.

After that, (with a semi) you'll need to push the shell drop lever, which is a small tab either on the side of or underneath the receiver depending upon the Mfg., to get a shell onto the lifter. Then pull back on the bolt charging handle, disengage the safety, then fire. Failure to push the shell drop lever(which is not the bolt release button on the side of the receiver) and your chamber remains empty.

For a pump shotgun, push the slide release (unless it is stored "cruiser ready"), pump, disengage the safety and fire.

There is no doubt that a semi fire rate is faster than a pump for the average person. But you still have to aim and put every projectile on the target. As someone once said, "Speed is fine but accuracy is final!".

If you need to do all those things, you're not doing it right. That's like saying if you have a SA pistol, you need to get a round out of the box, load it into the mag, insert the mag into the pistol, rack the slide, and then pull the trigger. Your HD firearm should be ready to go i.e. point and shoot.

I have pump & SA and my 1301 is my HD of choice. All I need to do is to rack it then press the trigger. If I was using my pump, I'd need to push the fore end to load & press the trigger. Same thing.

[walmart_ar15]

I knew someone would get me on that: buy two pumps for one semi.

I don't doubt it but could you or someone give a couple reasons why a semi would have a bigger learning curve than a pump. I would have thought the opposite. Simply because you just point and pull the trigger.

Thanks

The older generations of gas semi can be ammo sensitive so knowing weapon clearing becomes important. Like said, a pump will shoot anything that fits into the chamber. How it cycles is purely based on manual action.

Semi will typically require some form of "back stop" for its action to recoil against. So, holding a semi too wimpy may cause it to "malfunction", ie not load the 2nd shot. Of course, one can also short stroke the pump.

Thus, it boils down to individual if they are capable of holding the gun correctly or they are more capable of racking. IMHO, racking the action under stress if more difficult than able to have a good grip on the gun. Then just boils down to use the proper ammo that will function 100% in the selected gun.

In the end, some training will mitigate any of the manual of arm concern.

Simplest is of course the SxS and O&U, break open action. Basically, like a pump (recoil the same) except you don't need to rack for the 2nd shot. But you only get 2 shots. Those take min shell too.

[Capybara]

House is single story, and as much as I'd like to have multiple SGs, I don't have that kind of $. As it is I don't know how I'm going to fit whatever I get in the safe.

Is your safe located in your bedroom? If not, what good will an HD shotgun do you in a safe? I would suggest one of the Hornady under bed long safes, unless you have no kids and no roommates. My big safe is far from my bedroom so I bought the Hornady safe just for the bedroom. It'll hold two or three long guns and a few small handguns and can be opened quickly in a number of ways, combo, key, RFID tag. The nice thing about the Hornady is you can open it when you go to bed and then close it up when you wake up and go out. Not as secure as a real, heavy, proper gun safe but a lot more practical for quick access to your HD shotgun, if it's needed.

If it's just you and the wife, I would leave the HD shotgun in the safe when you are out and I would leave it in your bedroom, out of sight but accessible, loaded and charged with the safety on when you are home or asleep. Having kids, roommates, etc. means it does have to be locked up in some kind of safe at all times. If it's just you and wifey, then you can have it more accessible at all times.

[TMB 1]

Here are some other thoughts..

I'm personally not a fan of "shared" SD/HD guns since differing physical needs are usually present. Such as; are you both right or left handed? Length of pull matters in a shotgun. Your LOP will likely be too long for your wife. The aftermarket fixes for LOP on these three shotguns varies in availability.

^ this ^

Didn't see it mentioned but don't discount even a something as low as a 410 for HD. There are many newer loads that are supposedly perfectly suited for HD and the recoil is minimal as expected.

Plenty of older articles out there that say "don't do it" but the thought now from what I've seen has turned around on that opinion. If you've seen the recent issue of American Rifleman I believe there was an article on this topic.

Some articles: https://gundigest.com/gear-ammo/ammu...r-home-defense

https://www.tactical-life.com/ammuni...-home-defense/

and this ^

My daughter (she will be 30 this year) has a Mossberg 500 Cruiser 410 with a regular buttstock, loaded with Federal 410 handgun 000 buckshot for her home defense shotgun.

[timberwoofers]

Loading shells into a semi or a pump shotgun tube is pretty much the same.

After that, (with a semi) you'll need to push the shell drop lever, which is a small tab either on the side of or underneath the receiver depending upon the Mfg., to get a shell onto the lifter. Then pull back on the bolt charging handle, disengage the safety, then fire. Failure to push the shell drop lever(which is not the bolt release button on the side of the receiver) and your chamber remains empty.

For a pump shotgun, push the slide release (unless it is stored "cruiser ready"), pump, disengage the safety and fire.

There is no doubt that a semi fire rate is faster than a pump for the average person. But you still have to aim and put every projectile on the target. As someone once said, "Speed is fine but accuracy is final!".

Thanks for the explanation.

[CJJohn]

Lots of good advice, and some "interesting" comments here. I have a 1301, I have an M4. It must be because I am an old geezer / fudd / collector, that I now use an 870, and KS7 for HD shotguns. I train with them, and I KNOW they will work, and that I won't short stroke them.
The 1301 is a 21" barrel COMP model, so a little long. The M4 with a pistol grip SUCKS for me. I am much faster manipulating the shotgun with a straight stock. The 870 is an 18" barrel, with extended tube, and I run soft velcro attached sidesaddles.

Whatever you choose, train and become effecient in it's use.

[billped]

WRB's opinions parallel mine. I have a long history of bird hunting with a pump so I stuck with the Mossberg 500 - I like to keep it simple.

Buy whatever you want, practice with it, get to the point where it feels natural, and have the "right" ammo (another debate, but please, no birdshot).

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

You'll be happy with either of those. I own a 1301, don't see the need to get a Benelli since it would be redundant for me. Can't comment on Beretta's new patrol but it seems to be a viable option. People I follow and whose opinions I respect say the Mossberg 940 and Stoeger MK3 are both good too.

The idea that a woman cannot run a semiautomatic shotgun but can with a pump is outrageous. You know what causes the majority of malfunctions on a pump action shotgun? The shooter. You know what doesn't have to be pumped? A semiautomatic. You know what has more recoil? A pump. The idea that a woman doesn't know how to press a trigger, a safety, or a bolt release belongs in 1955. You can practice the manual of arms with dummy rounds, and even then, the odds of needing to reload it are basically zero. I would still recommend a shotgun class to learn recoil mitigation techniques (pull-lean or push-pull) as well as port loading under the watchful eye of an instructor. This needs to be a shotgun class a la Rob Haught or Steve Fisher, not front sight. If you need additional help, just send me a PM and I can video chat.

You will need to pattern and then zero your shotgun to the defensive load you will use. Shotguns are voodoo and they will all pattern differently. Do not use minishells. They lack the penetration of regular buckshot, can cause complications if your shotgun doesn't like them, and you should not be taking shots with the idea that you won't have penetration problems. Reduced recoil 00 Buck, federal flite control, or something similar. #4 being the smallest amount of acceptable shot that has sufficient penetration.

Priorities are a light, upgraded sight (best bead is an XS big dot, optics are an option but not necessary on an HD gun), ammunition on the gun, and a sling.

I don't recommend pistol grips; makes it actually harder to manipulate and move the shotgun for various reloading techniques.

These are mine:

Loading shells into a semi or a pump shotgun tube is pretty much the same.

After that, (with a semi) you'll need to push the shell drop lever, which is a small tab either on the side of or underneath the receiver depending upon the Mfg., to get a shell onto the lifter. Then pull back on the bolt charging handle, disengage the safety, then fire. Failure to push the shell drop lever(which is not the bolt release button on the side of the receiver) and your chamber remains empty.

For a pump shotgun, push the slide release (unless it is stored "cruiser ready"), pump, disengage the safety and fire.

An action bar lock is easy, but a bolt release isn't? There isn't a need to make things overcomplicated.

[NATEWA]

Rem 870 with magpul stock for HD. Similar to Randy’s but with a different light set up and limbsaver recoil pad. I hunted with an a300 for a lot of years. Great shotguns!

I’d look into the a300 patrol or a mossberg 500, maybe in 20 guage.

Good luck

[E81]

How about 12G AK (like Saiga 12) or 940 JM Pro?

[Quiet]

How about 12G AK (like Saiga 12) ... ?

Not ideal in CA due to CA assault weapons laws for shotguns.


In order to be CA legal, an AK style shotgun must be configured as:

Option A. Manually operated shotgun.
Gas system is disabled/removed and makes the firearm into straight pull bolt-action shotgun.

Option B. Semi-auto fixed magazine shotgun.
Magazine must be permanently affixed into the magazine well or magazine must be affixed in a manner that prevents its removal until after the bolt-carrier group is removed from the receiver.

[E81]

Not ideal in CA due to CA assault weapons laws for shotguns.


In order to be CA legal, an AK style shotgun must be configured as:

Option A. Manually operated shotgun.
Gas system is disabled/removed and makes the firearm into straight pull bolt-action shotgun.

Option B. Semi-auto fixed magazine shotgun.
Magazine must be permanently affixed into the magazine well or magazine must be affixed in a manner that prevents its removal until after the bolt-carrier group is removed from the receiver.

Don?t mean to highjack the thread.

Thanks for catching me up.

So no more mag release with the removal tool?

And what about with sporter stock?

[Foothills]

I saw a class where almost everyone was shooting 12 gauge. The women all quit the class at lunch time.

On the other hand, something like a Weatherby 20-gauge semi-auto can be quite soft-shooting and petite women can handle it well. Also consider checking the youth 20g for length-of-pull fitting.

[hermosabeach]

I had this conversation with a buddy in Texas and his wife.

We will get together and spend a day training with the AR and the shotgun.

I educate and then she can decide what works best for her.


The low recoil 8 pellet 12 gauge 00 are great loads. Same recoil as 20 gauge.

So the 20 gauge is dead for self defense.

Very difficult to find 00 for 20 gauge.



If you were in so cal I'd offer to take you and the lady off for 6 hours with a half dozen shotguns. Yes - you would pay for ammo - not my time.

We can get your spouse familiar with the 12 gauge and how to shoot it.
Then go over pros and cons of all the guns.


Some semi autos are very long - long stock and length of pull from trigger to end of buttstock. Some semi autos have recoil systems in the stock and cannot be shortened.

If you are shorter or have shorter arms, a long length of pull is annoying at best.