HD Shotgun Questions

[timberwoofers]

Ready to dive into getting a home defense shotgun.

Looking at the Beretta 1301 tactical or a Benelli M4 tactical. Both seem like top end choices but would like to hear from those who have firsthand experience.

So the questions I have are these: for HD which would be better, with or without a pistol grip?

Which is easier to use/shoot; wife is 125lbs. This is important to me that she be comfortable using it. Less recoil the better.

Which is more reliable?

M4 is about $200 more than the 1301 new to purchase so that part of it isn't much of a concern to me.

If I purchased new I'd probably want to upgrade the M4 to a 7 round tube to match the Beretta so I would want to factor that into cost?

If I'm missing something important, please feel free to let me know.

Thanks. I appreciate any feedback.

[Quiet]

In the on-going debate between Benelli M4 vs Beretta 1301 Tactical, I was leaning towards the Beretta 1301 Tactical with the cost being the deciding factor.

However, with the release of the Beretta A300 Patrol, I am now favoring that over both the Benelli M4 and Beretta 1301.



For shotguns in the home defense roles, I'm currently using mini-shells (#4 buck, 15 pellet) in a Kel-Tec KSG (12+12+1) and a Mossberg Model 590S (13+1) stored at the ready.
The mini-shells have less felt recoil and muzzle flash than 2.75" shells.

[timberwoofers]

In the on-going debate between Benelli M4 vs Beretta 1301 Tactical, I was leaning towards the Beretta 1301 Tactical with the cost being the deciding factor.

However, with the release of the Beretta A300 Patrol, I am now favoring that over both the Benelli M4 and Beretta 1301.



For shotguns in the home defense roles, I'm currently using mini-shells (#4 buck, 15 pellet) in a Kel-Tec KSG (12+12+1) and a Mossberg Model 590S (13+1) stored at the ready.
The mini-shells have less felt recoil and muzzle flash than 2.75" shells.

Quiet, thank you for your reply. I value your opinion.

I wasn't aware of the 300 patrol. A lot lower price point, which is great. How reliable is it and do you have experience with these?

I know not much about shotguns and the ammo so I'm not familiar with mini shells. I assume the recoil is much less, but how are they as far as take down? Would they still work in a semi auto?

As far as the Kel Tec, I am gravitating towards a semi auto because in my head in a stressful situation it would be easier to use especially for my wife.

Again, let me know your thoughts as i have about zippo experience with shotguns.

I've shot a couple probably 36 yrs ago.

[G-forceJunkie]

Training. What are your plans for training?

If I'm missing something important, please feel free to let me know.

Thanks. I appreciate any feedback.

[timberwoofers]

Training. What are your plans for training?

Haven't thought that far yet. Other than friends' property or local range to shoot.

I have plenty of rifle and pistol experience, no shotgun.

I do have a good friend with a lot of pump shotgun experience.

I feel some schooling is coming my way.

[Imageview]

The a300 patrol and 1301 are super reliable with just about any ammo. The m4 is slightly pickier about ammo, but super reliable with ammo that works. Ultimately all are functionally equally reliable , since you can stock up on ammo that functions well in either gun. Mini shells will likely not work in any of the guns.

The a300, 1301, and m4 are gas guns which evens out the playing field a bit. The patrol doesn?t include the kick off feature that some a300s have which works pretty well (although not as well as the system on the a400s), the 1301 is the lightest, and the m4 the heaviest. Felt recoil on all the guns is very manageable, although there are differences. Fit and ammo selection will likely make more of a difference than anything for how recoil is felt. All of these guns will fire faster than you can, so while beretta claims the 1301 is the fastest (and they make them all so they should know), it probably isn?t meaningful.

Pistol grip vs regular stock is personal preference. Again fit is a big issue. I shoot shotguns a lot, almost never any pistol gripped long guns, so I?d probably pick a more conventional shotgun stock over a pistol gripped version. Ymmv.

As far as stopping power for a mini shell, any hit center of mass with a shotgun at typical home defense distances (sub 7 yards) is likely to be fatal. At 3-5 yards a normal 2 3/4? of 7.5 birdshot is pretty gnarly, 7 pellets of #4 buck and 4 of #1 (aguila?s load for mini shells) is much better for penetration. Shotguns are pretty much overkill at short ranges.

There?s not really a bad choice here, other than not training with them. Which one you prefer will likely be based on personal factors. I?d buy an a300 because it?s cheaper, aside from training it?s not going to ever get shot hopefully. Even the magazine extension on the m4 seems like overkill to me, 5+1 capacity is already a whole lot of problems solved. But the a300 does have 7+1, which further factors into the price advantage if that matters to you.

[swiftone]

We went A300 for house use. My wife is a Clay's shooter (Benelli SS) so the controls are familiar to her.

We do live in a built up area (Orange County) and right now are keeping AA 7.5s in the gun. 😁

Gun is faster than we are capable of aimed fire and recoil is minimal.

[walmart_ar15]

Gas guns tend to have least recoil, and straight comb stock are actually easier to shoot and learn with (more ergonomic). IMHO, semis are actually easier for follow up shots. In the moment of stress, short stroking the pump is a concern.

The simplest, easiest shotty to use for HD would be a coach or O&U with min shells assuming two shots is all you really need.

[enorbit3]

In before Randy.

My pick would be the a300 patrol followed by the 1301. If I didn't already have a Mossberg 930 SPX I'd pick one of those up asap.

[Citadelgrad87]

Get some training, and what training told me is the pistol grip, for me, is a detriment. Lots of hand movement with safety manipulation, and i have large hands. I got rid of the pg on my M1S90 and am very happy with the change.

Then, of course, i switched to an ar based house gun?so?.

[Squidward]

Here are some other thoughts..

I'm personally not a fan of "shared" SD/HD guns since differing physical needs are usually present. Such as; are you both right or left handed? Length of pull matters in a shotgun. Your LOP will likely be too long for your wife. The aftermarket fixes for LOP on these three shotguns varies in availability.

Lighter shotguns, like the A300 Patrol and 1301 recoil more than the Benelli. The texture on the 1301 furniture is aggressive, meaning sharp. Less on the other two.


Do you plan to add an optic?

Do plan on adding a sling.

Do plan on buying several different types of buckshot and slug to pattern and function test in your shotgun.

Some locations require (by local ordinance) that firearms in the home be locked in a container when not under direct control. In any event a gun safe is a good investment!

And, as mentioned above, plan on professional training.

Finally, if at all possible, a "test drive" of your potential purchase is valuable in making an informed decision.

[ken5714]

Have you seen or read the "sticky" what I did with my shotgun, Posted by W.R. Buchanan?

Suggest you do that, outstanding info there..

By the way I have a Beretta 1301, love it! Would also suggest looking at the
newer A300 Beretta.

[L-2]

To add to Post12, here's the referenced thread link:

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1651983

I like the OP's thinking in his Post3, of going with a semiauto. If someone's training and practice is limited, learning the pump action can be frustrating/difficult.

However, pump guns can/will be less expensive and will usually cycle any load, whether heavy/strong or light/weak. Mini-shells I'll leave as a separate issue as the length may/may not work well in every shotgun; and I don't have any list of which shotguns will most often work with mini-shells and which don't.

I like the comments on not sharing a shotgun due to the differences in the two users' sizes. Choosing a shotgun for a 125 pound spouse/female sounds like a losing situation, compared to letting her choose her own gun/firearm/shotgun.

My shotguns are set-up similarly to W.R. Buchanan's referenced thread, but that's something to consider doing while choosing which shotgun to buy and one's desire to specifically outfit in for one's personal preferences.

I like how someone else mentioned the simplicity of a break-open design in Post8, although I'd worry about the quality and reliability of what's on the market. Many folks probably won't be shooting/practicing/using one of these double barrel/SxS/OverUnder guns enough to have them break, however.

For the OP, not knowing the OP, any one of the shotguns mentioned M4/1301/A300 should be great shotguns and are getting used daily in LE use, lately. For the 125 pound female, some LOP fitting; some practice; the recoil (for both users); and getting used to the weight will be necessary, the M4 being the heavier of the three.

Mag capacity and whether to spend even more to get there with the M4 is a personal decision. There's no hard and fast minimum capacity number to have for a HD/combat/tactical shotgun.

Slings/lights/ammo carriers are things I have/use, but that's a personal decision. Right now, just decide upon which shotgun to obtain while keeping the various options in mind.

Here's one company selling (although out of stock) shotguns already modified to the company's idea of what works for a "fighting" shotgun:

https://langdontactical.com/products/ltt-guns/1301-shotgun/

Perhaps there's a good market for the folks who want a shotgun ready-to-go with few options or decisions to make after purchase.

Here's another brand, Mossberg, which I haven't read much about yet which has some semiauto models available or to become available, hopefully:

https://www.mossberg.com/firearms/action/autoload.html?mb_usage=Security

(Someone already mentioned in this thread, he had a Mossberg 930.)

Let us know what you end up doing/buying. Later, then add how you like it or not like it.

[Capybara]

A few suggestions...

1. None of the semi auto shotguns will reliably cycle mini shells. For that, I would recommend the Mossberg 590S pump. Mini shells or a 20 ga. may be a better fit for your wife, depending on her stature and experience level with shooting and recoil.

2. Not sure of the physical layout of your home but also keep in mind that the shotguns being discussed here all have relatively long OALs.

Beretta 1301 Tactical 37.8" OAL
Benelli M4 Tactical 40" OAL

If you have narrow hallways, stairways, etc. a 40" long gun will be a hindrance to movement. If we lived in America, you could consider an SBS, but those, other than C&R examples that are exceedingly rare to find, are outlawed in Commifornia.

My evaluation for my HD shotgun was as follows:
I live in a three story town home and my entire house with the exception of the living room, is exceedingly narrow stairways and landings. So for me, and my situation, something shorter than 40" OAL was in order and I feel handguns are lousy HD tools.
I tried some drills in my place with my 1301 Tactical and honestly, the long length of the gun was a hindrance and it meant that the barrel of the gun had to proceed me out of stairways and around tight corners. Any HD trainer will tell you that this leaves you vulnerable to someone lying in wait and grabbing the barrel and getting the gun away from you. Not good. Even if I was careful, I also had a good chance of banging the barrel against a wall or corner as well, which is not good either as far as making noise and giving away position.

My solution was a bullpup shotgun. My Smith & Wesson M&P 12 has an OAL of 27.8" and it has a 19" barrel. And it can hold 21 rounds of mini shells or 15 rounds of 2.75 shells. It's a pump, which is slower to cycle than my 1301 Tactical, but I feel the OAL is the main thing. in an HD situation with a shotgun, if you can hit your target, it's doubtful you would need more than a few shells but who knows, home invasion with multiple assailants? You never know what could come through your front door or a window.
The M&P 12 has M-Lok slots for a light, I have a Scalarworks Leap mount with a Holosun 507 green dot sight, and a Blue Force Tactical sling that snaps in and out of the QD mounts. The M&P 12 uses an AR grip and safety too making it very familiar feeling to AR owners. It's a pretty impressive gun for the money and it's the only legal way to get such a short OAL in California. If I had a single story house without narrow stairways and hallways, I would rather use my 1301 Tactical, it's an amazing gun and is much faster to shoot but for my situation, I discovered, it's simply a hindrance to movement in my house.

If I was buying again today, I would get the A300 over the 1301 Tactical or the Benelli M4 Tactical though, it's a better value. Benelli M4 Tactical is obviously a great gun but it's heavy, relatively expensive and it's 40" long. Could your wife handle a heavy, 40" fighting shotgun comfortably?

Not saying you should get a bullpump like I did but consider the practicality about how you would navigate your home if you heard breaking glass. How wide are the egress points from your bedroom to all of the other rooms of the house? Is the house single story or two or three story? How wide or narrow are your hallways? My point is to examine your ENTIRE HD situation, for both you and your wife and don't buy a certain shotgun just because that's the shotgun that everyone tells you you should buy. We all have different needs for our situation and you have the added challenge of finding something that can work for both you and your wife, unless you want to keep two shotguns for HD around, one for you and one for your wife? Most posters are going to bag on the M&P 12 because it's weird looking or say to get a KelTec KSG instead but I did my research and so far, I am pretty happy with my decision because it works well for me in my situation and OAL and manual of arms were important to me. I prefer the AR safety on the M&P 12 over the crosssbolt safety on my Beretta 1301 Tactical. But that OAL sealed the deal for my situation. No other way to get an SBS length shotgun in California legally and that's what my home layout called for.

[sfvshooter]

I have a 1301 LE model for HD. I had an Inforce light on it, but I had to move my hand slightly to turn on/off. Wasn't a big deal when I was dry firing at home, but during a nighttime class, I learned it was cumbersome so I added an Olight. I have Surefire scout w/pressure switches at 12 o' clock on my SHTF AR's & Scar, but went with an Olight for the 1301 so I could tape the pressure switch at 3 o' clock, which is where my fingers rest.

Like others have said, training is where you find out if something does or doesn't work and where you get to see how others have their gear/firearms configured.