Fastest method for reloading?

[BC9696]

Haven't even looked into actual competitions in and around So. Cal. yet, just wanna try it out and see if I like it. Looks like fun.

[k1dude]

Still a lot of 3gun matches out there.

It's an ammo problem too. 3-gun match round counts are prohibitively expensive now, even if you reload. Ammo and primer pricing needs to come down quite a bit before you see a resurgence in 3-gun participation.

With the economy apparently heading down the tubes, it will likely delay the resurgence of 3-gun even more.

If we ever get back to normal, I think you'll see the popularity take off again.

To the OP, mag fed shotguns seem to be taking over 3-gun. But that doesn't help us here in Kalistan. Here our best bet is the learn to quad load.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I personally think that all 3 gun shoots should be done with common shotguns holding no more than 8 rounds. No race guns with 20 round mag tubes.!!!

After they are gone you would be required to Port Load/Emergency Reload the gun. If you could Quad Load it would not be on a gun with a modified Loading Port.

Pump guns would get a Handicap benefit. IE: X amount of time cut off the total because of the slower gun.

There also must be several Slugs Shots on any given stage and misses count against you as they would also do on rifle and pistol stages. This would eliminate "Spray and Pray" shooting. -X for every miss.

This would cut down on the number of rounds fired at any given event.

My .02

Randy

[HKAllTheThings]

I personally think that all 3 gun shoots should be done with common shotguns holding no more than 8 rounds. No race guns with 20 round mag tubes.!!!

After they are gone you would be required to Port Load/Emergency Reload the gun. If you could Quad Load it would not be on a gun with a modified Loading Port.

Pump guns would get a Handicap benefit. IE: X amount of time cut off the total because of the slower gun.

There also must be several Slugs Shots on any given stage and misses count against you as they would also do on rifle and pistol stages. This would eliminate "Spray and Pray" shooting. -X for every miss.

This would cut down on the number of rounds fired at any given event.

My .02

Randy

Since open shotguns compete in their own divisions, why the limit then?

Your match has too many equipment rules, mr match director

[W.R.Buchanan]

Just trying to level the playing field. Right now the gamers beat the normal gun shooters by 50%. Believe me it is not gun handling as none of them are that good with their guns. The guns are just faster to load and they are all Automatics.

Pump Guns have no chance.

Randy

[HKAllTheThings]

Just trying to level the playing field. Right now the gamers beat the normal gun shooters by 50%. Believe me it is not gun handling as none of them are that good with their guns. The guns are just faster to load and they are all Automatics.

Pump Guns have no chance.

Randy

Yeah but a magazine fed shotgun competes in Open, which is separate from the tube fed in Tactical.

And if you’re using a pump vs a semi, you can see why that would be slower and you’re still choosing to run it on purpose.

[sigstroker]

True, and some match directors get even by making you start with all magazines, including separate ones, empty. I knew a guy that always showed up with an 1100 as well as his AK-based shotgun because he never knew when the MD was going to get him.

It's an ammo problem too. 3-gun match round counts are prohibitively expensive now, even if you reload. Ammo and primer pricing needs to come down quite a bit before you see a resurgence in 3-gun participation.

With the economy apparently heading down the tubes, it will likely delay the resurgence of 3-gun even more.

If we ever get back to normal, I think you'll see the popularity take off again.

Doubt it. 3 gun with a shotgun is dying off all over. People would rather shoot with a PCC then compete in a shotgun loading contest.

[W.R.Buchanan]

The whole idea of the game is to emulate a combat scenario in real life.

How many times will you have your Race Gun with you when the SHTF?

And even then, how many real Gunfights are fought with Race Guns?

Answer: NONE!

In Civilian Life they are almost all fought with Pump Shotguns, AR/M16's and Glocks.

I am there for the Training Aspect of the shoot, and to be competitive, not to see if I can beat a kid that is 40 years younger than me with a Race Gun.

Although I generally do beat most of them cuz they have no gun handling skills.

Randy

[HKAllTheThings]

The whole idea of the game is to emulate a combat scenario in real life.

How many times will you have your Race Gun with you when the SHTF?

And even then, how many real Gunfights are fought with Race Guns?

Answer: NONE!

In Civilian Life they are almost all fought with Pump Shotguns, AR/M16's and Glocks.

I am there for the Training Aspect of the shoot, and to be competitive, not to see if I can beat a kid that is 40 years younger than me with a Race Gun.

Although I generally do beat most of them cuz they have no gun handling skills.

Randy

IMO, I think your premise is flawed. Games aren't scenarios. They are drills, just like what you run in training courses. A course of fire is a series of interconnected drills, one after another, presented in a random manner to help test and surface on demand performance.

Equipment limitations are part of the gaming aspect to group like equipment together.

Gunfights aren't division-limited. In fact, they're more like Open division than anything else.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Sorry but 3 Gun was designed to mimic Combat.

Otherwise it would have been called "Fun Shoot at the Range," and bring whatever you want.

IF these games aren't "Scenarios" then all the stages would be the same every time like ISPC and Steel Challenge and other games where the courses of fire are the same every time.

Randy

[Scotty]

The whole idea of the game is to emulate a combat scenario in real life.

How many times will you have your Race Gun with you when the SHTF?

And even then, how many real Gunfights are fought with Race Guns?

Answer: NONE!

How much of the competition gear has now made its way into the combat side?

Staccato pistols was STI, which built competition guns.
JP Rifles line up has more tactical guns than competition.
Taran Butler is a competition shooter, but now makes Gucci guns for the tactical wannabes.
How long have red dots been on competition pistols?
The modern CO pistol is basically starting to look like the defunct IPSC Modified Division. If i don't know what that is, anything goes as long as it fit in the box (red dot, small comps)
Red dots on rifles was from the competition world.
EOTech, I still have a Bushnell Holosight (the OG) on one of my competition pistols.
Early 2000's the hottest optic for 3 gun rifle was a CDNN closeout $50 Simmons ProDiamond 1.5-5x20 scope. That was literally the only LPVO. That wasn't even a term back then. They weren't that good either but got the job done. It has the largest field of view.
Navy EOD were running Arrendondo magwells on their M4 in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Offset iron sights on rifles was started by JP rifles for 3 gun open.
Offset red dots was another byproduct of open rifles.

[buttfish]

I found if you want more ammo quick, you buy more; otherwise, reloading to me is a soothing, relaxing way to enjoy the day, stocking up. I am a single stage loading kinda guy, one round at a time.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I found if you want more ammo quick, you buy more; otherwise, reloading to me is a soothing, relaxing way to enjoy the day, stocking up. I am a single stage loading kinda guy, one round at a time.

Then you should know that I manufacture the worlds finest Portable Reloading Press made. www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

Check Youtube for videos showing the tool in use. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEpYQMdnxHY&t=18s

Just shipped #346 today!

Randy

[HKAllTheThings]

Sorry but 3 Gun was designed to mimic Combat.

Otherwise it would have been called "Fun Shoot at the Range," and bring whatever you want.

IF these games aren't "Scenarios" then all the stages would be the same every time like ISPC and Steel Challenge and other games where the courses of fire are the same every time.

Randy

I do agree with you that it can be considered a combat sport. But ask yourself what makes it so? Is it the skills that are developed and tested or the courses and equipment?

[W.R.Buchanan]

It is both.

The skills to run any given gun are peculiar to that gun, or guns that are similar. How you are outfitted makes a big difference and being able to run your setup efficiently is a matter of practice. That includes the gun and equipment, and your skills in running it. This would be true in Combat or Gaming, however the optimal guns for either would not be the same.

A 5 foot long race gun with a 30" bbl and 20 round mag tube is not going to be appropriate for busting down doors, just as a pump gun with 6 rounds on board won't be optimal for shooting strings of 20+ targets in a race.
However the pump gun can do both fairly well whereas the Racer just isn't going to work well in the field where maneuverability and reliability is the difference between life and death.

Skills to run a Pump Gun efficiently are similar to a Semi Auto except in the loading dept, when talking about race guns. Race guns are modified to be either Quad Loaded or Speed Loaded. I haven't seen a Pump Gun with a Speed Loader adapter on it, but it is kind of possible to quad or at least double load one with enough practice. The Mag Fed Pump Shotguns are awkward in the extreme.

The big rub in Quad Loading versus Port Loading on a Pump Gun is that in order to Quad Load you must take the gun off your shoulder and turn it upside down which is a bunch of wasted motion. I port load with the gun on my shoulder on target ready to fire as soon as I close the slide. This simple technique negates the advantage of Quad Loading on a Pump Gun.

It makes sense on a Semi Auto as there is no manipulation of the gun after you load it, and make it ready to fire. Then you can bang off rounds until it is empty again, and no pump gun is as fast.

Randy