Home Defense Shotguns?

[John Browning]

FAT chance of finding ANY CLEO willing to sign your Form 4. If you do let us know who the guy is. I'm next in line.

With a Living Trust, you do not need a CLEO to sign of on NFA stuff. Beautiful shotgun Ken!

As for a shotgun, if you don't have years behind a pump and don't practice enough to make running it an act you can perform while in chaos, DO NOT GET A PUMP for self defense. The pump and auto are mathmatically equal in terms of mechanical reliablity, but when you factor in the operator, the auto is a hands down winner in terms of reliability. Under stress, the chance you'll short stroke it is high if you are new to shotguns.

A Remington 1100 LT-20 youth would be ideal. It has plenty of power, less recoil, and is more reliable than an 870 for a new shooter.

[Amacias805]

FAT chance of finding ANY CLEO willing to sign your Form 4. If you do let us know who the guy is. I'm next in line.

Trust????


anyways while that 870 looks really cool, it looks like it would be hard to hold/handle...

[Badger71]

An AOW built from a Remington 870 receiver:



California Penal Code 12020(b)(8) explicitly states that AOWs (except pen guns) are exempt from Calfornia's short-barreled shotgun law, but must otherwise be legally owned, meaning on an ATF Form 5320.4 (aka, Form 4) that requires the $5 AOW stamp.

Please explain how you are able to have this legally in CA. I'm not trying to flame you, I'm actually curious.

[kermit315]

I know it has probabaly been said a million times, however: if you pimp your "home defense" gun out and have to use it, all that "pimping" could/will be used against you by an aggressive defense attorney. Now, I'm not against having a piece for the "cool" factor, but I always remember what State I live in and how "protected" the criminals are from the civilians in the court system. Plus, if you have to use it, it will be confiscated as evidence. I train with my guns the way i bought them from the store....stock...and generally, my hd pieces are all around $300 in value but reliable so I'm not out too much scratch if I never see them again. YMMV.

Do you have any evidence of such a defense being utilized successfully? It seems that if its a good shoot, its a good shoot, and if not, it doesnt matter if he shot them with a pimped out saiga or a slingshot.

Just curious, I always hear this argument, but have never seen any proof that it has actually happened, and it has always seemed like gun store FUD to me.

ETA: My home defense is a Charles Daly Field Tactical 12 ga. Plain jane, with a basic sling and the plug removed. While Remington's and Mossbergs are good shotguns, I wonder if you have any experience with a CD, vintagedude88, or are just knocking it because you have never tried it?

[John Browning]

Do you have any evidence of such a defense being utilized successfully? It seems that if its a good shoot, its a good shoot, and if not, it doesnt matter if he shot them with a pimped out saiga or a slingshot.

Just curious, I always hear this argument, but have never seen any proof that it has actually happened, and it has always seemed like gun store FUD to me.

ETA: My home defense is a Charles Daly Field Tactical 12 ga. Plain jane, with a basic sling and the plug removed. While Remington's and Mossbergs are good shotguns, I wonder if you have any experience with a CD, vintagedude88, or are just knocking it because you have never tried it?

I totally agree. That being said, juries do whatever they want and justify it however they need to. I'd still rather be judged by 12 than have a family member or myself carried by 6, so I'll use whatever I can to defend myself.

[nicki]

870 short barrel shotgun.

That short barreled 870 would certainly be a wicked home defense gun, unfortunately, if it was used, I would hate to think of the legal nightmares I would face both criminally and civilly.

The general public thinks that a short barrelled or "sawed off shotgun" can wipe out a roomfull of people. Kinda like the one shot and a plane will decompress.

Yeah, I know police agencies use 14 inch Benelli's, but they are the "Police".


Nicki

[Z ME FLY]

FAT chance of finding ANY CLEO willing to sign your Form 4. If you do let us know who the guy is. I'm next in line.

There are ways to get a sbs. Get a trust, then get yourself a c&r shotgun. Get the tax stamp then go chopping!

[BigDogatPlay]

As discussed a couple times in the thread, there is something to definitely be said for a coach gun.

My "go to" shotgun is a Mossberg 500, very much plain jane. The only things added to it are a six round side saddle and sling that carries another 25 rounds. Way too heavy for my wife to play Sarah Connor with. So the home defense shotgun becomes a coach gun with a shell cuff on the butt. It's two barrels are plenty enough for her to get their attention while she gets whatever pistol she wants into action.

[Futurecollector]

.

Yeah, to all of you guys that think this is a cool/badass/ great go-to gun, go shoot some 3in buck out of it and tell me that your going to use it as a HD gun, or even rifled slugs, HAHA,

[John Browning]

That short barreled 870 would certainly be a wicked home defense gun, unfortunately, if it was used, I would hate to think of the legal nightmares I would face both criminally and civilly.

The general public thinks that a short barrelled or "sawed off shotgun" can wipe out a roomfull of people. Kinda like the one shot and a plane will decompress.

Yeah, I know police agencies use 14 inch Benelli's, but they are the "Police".


Nicki

I honestly think that anything all black is most evil to the unknowing masses. I have had friends look at my 11-87 with bluing and wood and shrug, but when they see my FN SLP they get all excited. Black=tactical=police for them, I guess.

[Badger71]

Do you have any evidence of such a defense being utilized successfully? It seems that if its a good shoot, its a good shoot, and if not, it doesnt matter if he shot them with a pimped out saiga or a slingshot.

Just curious, I always hear this argument, but have never seen any proof that it has actually happened, and it has always seemed like gun store FUD to me.

ETA: My home defense is a Charles Daly Field Tactical 12 ga. Plain jane, with a basic sling and the plug removed. While Remington's and Mossbergs are good shotguns, I wonder if you have any experience with a CD, vintagedude88, or are just knocking it because you have never tried it?

I personally knew a convenience store owner of a small mom/pop shop that defended himself against two robbers with a 9mm pistol w/mounted laser attachment. This guy was a Korean War vet and his eyes had gone bad...hence the laser sights. Both wounded robbers were caught by the cops, arrested, and put up on trial. Representation for the criminals in the criminal trial were trying to paint the shop owner as a "gun nut" itching to shoot somebody with all that evilness of the laser. The criminals were found guilty...barely, since there was no surveillance video. Thank god for priors. However, in the follow up civil suit filed by the families of the "victims", this bs was being thrown around again. I don't know what the end result was since I moved a few weeks later so I can't confirm/deny if the defense was used with any succes.

[kermit315]

Like I said, its either a good shoot or a bad shoot, and if its good, it wont matter what was used, same if its a bad shoot.

I still have yet to hear any corroborated evidence of any kind of case being successfully pursued as per your original post on the subject.

[Badger71]

I still have yet to hear any corroborated evidence of any kind of case being successfully pursued as per your original post on the subject.

Believe me, I hear what you're saying. Any port in a storm and any gun when things hit the fan. I guess my point in that response was: their representation wouldn't have had anything to focus on if the gun was a stock piece. Since it was modified (even for his disability) it became a point of contention which fed the fuel for a civil trial. Whether or not he won the civil trial, he still had to pay out of pocket attorney fees. He may have won the battle for his life, potentially, but at what monetary cost?

[vintagedude88]

There are ways to get a sbs. Get a trust, then get yourself a c&r shotgun. Get the tax stamp then go chopping!

I've been down that route before with a dealer on some NFA stuff. According to him, even with the trust and the C&R, in Kalifornia, you still need a signoff from the CLEO.

[Z ME FLY]

Vintagedude88,
You might want to contact oaklander. He is the guru here that knows about the trust. I am sure he can give you the right info. From what I can remember, when it's a trust, it's a little bit different process. You still send a copy to the CLEO but from what I remember on the thread, it's just sent but it doesn't matter if it is signed or not? Try the search button and I am sure you can find the thread.