Tactical Shotgun Recommendations

[APV]

'Special ops' only uses shotguns for breeching so it's very limited.

IMO, the dudes that have the most experience with deploying shotguns are the LE community.

Shotguns are not much in use in the military anyway. I used to consider shotguns secondary to rifles out of no experience, but that assumption seems wrong based on several videos of instructors with real life experience that I watched. Videos talked about what practically happens, saying that practically at close range shotguns do not miss and it is almost impossible to escape the shot. In my youth ears my dad's friend accidental discharged his shotgun while cleaning. The hole in the balcony door from not spread pellets was the size of his son's head that moved away a moment before it happened. It is quite entertaining to watch anti-gun debates like evil scary assault rifles vs harmless shotguns.

[elSquid]

Shotguns are not much in use in the military anyway.

(snip)

It is quite entertaining to watch anti-gun debates like evil scary assault rifles vs harmless shotguns.

Yup, it's kind of crazy.

A FWIW.

Dial the wayback machine a hundred or so years...

https://www.loc.gov/law/mlr/pdf/10-1997.pdf

The German Government protests against the use of shotguns by the American Army and calls attention to the fact that according to the law of war (Kriegsrecht) every [U.S.] prisoner [of war] found to have in his possession such guns or ammunition belonging thereto forfeits his life. This protest is based upon article 23(e) of the Hague convention [sic]respecting the laws and customs of war on land. Reply by cable is required before October 1, 1918.

[[ the official US Gov't response ]]

The Government of the United States notes the threat of the German Government to execute every prisoner of war found to have in his possession shotguns or shotgun ammunition. Inasmuch as the weapon is lawful and may be rightfully used, its use will not be abandoned by the American Army . . .If the German Government should carry out its threat in a single instance, it will be the right and duty of the . . . United States to make such reprisals as will best protect the American forces, and notice is hereby given of the intention of the . . . United States to make such reprisals.

So during WW1, when belt fed MGs, poison gas, and all manner of explosive devices were used, the German gov't felt that 12 gauge pump shotguns "went too far."



-- Michael

[Killer Bee]

1941 model 11R - making friends in WWII

[HKAllTheThings]

Shotguns are not much in use in the military anyway. I used to consider shotguns secondary to rifles out of no experience, but that assumption seems wrong based on several videos of instructors with real life experience that I watched. Videos talked about what practically happens, saying that practically at close range shotguns do not miss and it is almost impossible to escape the shot. In my youth ears my dad's friend accidental discharged his shotgun while cleaning. The hole in the balcony door from not spread pellets was the size of his son's head that moved away a moment before it happened. It is quite entertaining to watch anti-gun debates like evil scary assault rifles vs harmless shotguns.

Right. On the Army side, we use them only on the breaching side. I can't speak for what the Marines do with their Benellis but I imagine it's the same.

LE guys do a lot more with them since they can fire different types of projectiles, including non lethals.

[APV]

actually it looks like the Marines do use it according to this article
"Evolution of shotguns in the Marine Corps
The Marine Corps has employed and retired various shotgun weapons to continually enhance its war-fighting capabilities to sustain the mantle of America’s premier expeditionary force in readiness. As time passes, technological advancements are made and the Corps strives to remain adaptive by training Marines to employ the use of weapons like the Benelli M4 Super 90, which is a 12-gauge shotgun also known as the M1014, which has been a part of the Corps’ arsenal since 1999."

https://www.pendleton.marines.mil/News/News-Article-Display/Article/566146/evolution-of-shotguns-in-the-marine-corps/

as for "12-gauge repeating (pump action) shotguns, loaded with six No. 00 buckshot shells", if German soldiers in trenches of WWI were taking it seriously it should be good enough for home defense.

Here is a report on more recent comparatively to WWI use of shotguns in Iraq,

https://www.tactical-life.com/news/british-sas-operative-terrorists-benelli-m4/

"...So just before dawn, a breaching team entered through a doorway into a courtyard. There, they ran into heavily armed opposition forces.
One of the breachers immediately opened fire with a Benelli M4 shotgun. In short order, he reportedly killed three would-be bombers, according to dailystar.co.uk. “The terrorists were no more than a few feet away when the SAS team came face to face with them,” an unnamed source told dailystar.co.uk.
“One of the breach team opened fire with a shotgun and shot dead three before they could get a shot off,” the source continued. “Another two terrorists appeared from a building and he neutralized them as well. It was a case of bang, bang, bang, then bang, bang. It was over in seven seconds.
“Several other terrorists emerged from the building but immediately surrendered and began panicking as two of the bodies didn’t have heads – they thought they were about to be executed,” reported dailystar.co.uk..."

[-hanko]

Good to see this thread still going. I just picked this Ithaca DS from another Calguns member a few weeks ago. I gave it a good cleaning and the action is as slick as snot. I planned on putting wood furniture on it, but the old school Choate stock set is quite sturdy and I may leave it be. The only modification I made was a new Wolff magazine spring.

Nice to see.

very nice! that's one model on my long term list to add to my collection..

I like that synthetic stock that's on there but an OG oiled wood stock would be nice

I seem to recall you having 870 police model(s)? any comments on the comparison?

For wood furniture, get on the wanted section at hoosiergunworks.com.

Just checked and they've got both early and late corncob front wood. $30 for either.

[theLBC]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAPIfuKdzUE

[HKAllTheThings]

[axhoaxho]

It really is personal.

I have many shotguns, but there is this one 'cheapie old 870 Express' that I used for all the classes and qualifications. I ran countless shells on it, and I made a few modifications to fit my needs.

It is like my body's reflex system is hardwired to this 870 Express, I could run it better than any other shotguns I have.

With that being said, it couldn't go too wrong to start with a Remington or Mossberg pump, take some shotgun classes, make a few personal modifications, and go from there.

(My newest shotgun is the TS-12, boy oh boy it is a game changer.... but that is another story.)

[Vitesse et de la Masse]

I'd go with what Corporal Hicks uses...

[W.R.Buchanan]

1941 model 11R - making friends in WWII

If only it had had the Two piece Lifter and Speed Feed feature like this one.



The earlier A5's and Rem 11's, Savages, etc all had to be turned upside down and the bolt release held so the lifter was released, which allowed he lifter to be depressed so that you could load the gun.

In 1963 that all changed with the introduction of the "Two Piece Lifter," which made the gun think that if there was a round in the magazine and the bolt was open that it should immediately feed that round into the chamber and make ready to fire. So stuffing a round into an empty magazine resulted in a ready to fire weapon.

This made the A5 the fastest single loading shotgun there is, which translates to being able to keep the gun running in a fight. Mine is 7+1 and it just as easily could have been 9+1 as Briley makes many Mag Extensions for this gun.

Now Competition guns have loading ports Modified to allow multi round insertions which the A5 will do, but not as well. However these guns will probably not see the Battlefield unless it is a "Local Battlefield" and thus not enter into this conversation.

Probably the most overlooked SA Shotgun out there and "Arguably" the best ever made. New guns are not really an improvement over this one, they are just different. JMB figured this out 120+ years ago. It is a Mechanical Marvel as were most of his designs, and the proof of that is how many of his designs are still in use. There are literally dozens!

Randy

[ScottsBad]

Scotts, how have the AR parts lead times been for you? It has taken forever for some companies to ship me their supposedly in stock receivers.

I’ve had the easiest time finding bird shot. Way easier than 9mm Luger and 223. Not sure if everyone is ok using bird for HD but you can get flats of the stuff for reasonable pre covid prices

I've not bought any lowers for a long time, but the uppers shipped fine. Most of the other parts shipped pretty fast.

It seems like shipping has been reasonable. I already had a lot of parts. Most of the stuff I buy now are small parts, couple of receiver extensions, bolt cam pins, ejectors, ejector springs, ejector retaining pins, firing pins, firing pin retaining pins, gas rings, extractors, extractor springs and pins, some ambi safeties, castle nuts, receiver end plates/w QD, extra detents, LPKs, extra complete bolts, Geissele trigger springs and pins, Etc.

I just went from butt-stock to muzzle and bought replacement parts for just about everything for multiple rifles. Even gas tubes. About the only thing I haven't bought spares for are the gas blocks and I should probably buy those so I can build complete if I need to.

Bought some replacement tools too.

Bird shot's not good for defense, but you could buy some BB's and replace some of the bird shot. That might help up close.

I've seen the Demolition Ranch put melted wax into bird shot, makes a nasty slug.

[ScottsBad]

In case anyone is interested, here are the simple pump shotguns I have for home defense, the Browning now has a Nordic Components tube extension on it. I've got some A5s, but I keep them as hunting guns.

Browning BPS High Capacity (they only made these for a short time.)

Browning BPS High Cap.jpg

Ithaca "Police"

Ithaca Police.jpg

High Standard "Riot"

High Standard Riot 4.jpg

[Lucky Scott]

Bought my Mossberg 500 pump over 25 years ago. Never had a single issue with it. Works every time.
While it is not the fanciest gun, there are all kinds of aftermarket parts available.
I replaced the front sight with a fiber optic, the safety with a oversized safety, and the stock with a ATI pistol grip stock.

[ScottsBad]

Bought my Mossberg 500 pump over 25 years ago. Never had a single issue with it. Works every time.
While it is not the fanciest gun, there are all kinds of aftermarket parts available.
I replaced the front sight with a fiber optic, the safety with a oversized safety, and the stock with a ATI pistol grip stock.

Don't need fancy shotgun, especially for HD.