Minishells noise level? For HD situations.

[Paladin]

^this. Read "on combat" by col grossman. The body shuts off the gunshot. It's so pronounced a lot of cops think their gun malfunctions because they don't hear it fire.
Apparently the same happens for hunters (ask how many hunters wear earpro), but I can't confirm such.

I've often wondered if BGs and suspects don't hear cops' orders ("Drop the gun!"), because of it and get shot and even killed because of it.

[Paladin]

I suggest you read the book. It's well documented, there is no loss of hearing no ringing in the ears, no known damage.

It's actually not known how, it's not a function of the brain shutting it off, there's a physiological response in the ear that somehow shuts out the sound and prevents damage.

Assuming you read it, page citation?

[Paladin]

My post from another thread about minis:

Aguila mini buckshot has a payload of (7)- 4 buck and (4) - 1 buck at 1200 fps and has 892 ft lbs of energy. Payload weight is 279 grains.

...

So, the Aguila mini buckshot is a mixed size buckshot ("Malay") load?

Is the Aguila or Federal hardened buck? Jacketed? (If so, what metal: Ni? Cu? other?)

[Paladin]

Most standard double-aught loads, typically, yes, with reduced recoil loads typically traveling 1150.

John Farnham on the subject of shotgun defense suggests that we avoid the slower buck loads and opt for the more potent speeds.

Too, Hornady offers an eight-pellet double-aught to the tune of 1600 fps...

What did Farnman say was the problem with reduced buck loads?

For me it's #4 to #1 buck for inside my home. (Hardened lead, Cu plated).

Barring SHTF, I've got no business shooting at targets outside my home. I'll just hunker down and let the boys in blue handle them.

If the SHTF, then, yeah, I could see 0 or 00 being useful.

[BajaJames83]

Find some low recoil 2-3/4 over those mini shells for reliability sake and you still get 9 00 pellets.

[Paladin]

^^^or 20 gauge if sound/recoil is a concern^^^

A 21" barreled Rem 11-87 Youth/Compact (order #83626) would make the basis of a good, home defense shotty.

https://www.remington.com/shotguns/autoloading/model-11-87/model-11-87-sportsman-black-synthetic

Choate even makes mag extensions for it.

The only problem with 20 ga is few ammo companies make #4 or larger buck for it (Federal and Remington). But you can always load your own to your specifications.

[Paladin]

Are minishells quieter than 2 3/4” full power shells? Are they still loud as hell thus rendering the difference inconsequential?

Thanks

Looks like Federal now offers 1 3/4" minishells ("Shorty"). Go to https://www.federalpremium.com/shotshell/ and select in left hand column 1 3/4" as shell length.

I wonder how reliable they are compared to the Aguila?

ETA: Here's another company, Challenger, offering 1 3/4" 12 ga mini shells: https://www.brownells.com/ammunition...rod123715.aspx

[elk hunter]

Mini shells, they work/cycle fine in one of the 3 shotguns I tried them in. For me they will not be my go to shotshell for much of anything.

[TFA777]

Assuming you read it, page citation?

Kindle version so page numbers don't work.
On combat, 4th edition
Section 2
Perceptual distortion
Chapter one
The eyes and ears, auditory exclusion, intensified sound and tunnel vision.

References a lot from Dr Alexis artwohls book "deadly force encounters" (which I have not read since copies are rare and expensive).

Surgery of 141 officers involved in a shooting.
85% reported diminished sound

Not going to type out the whole chapter here...

[PaperTarget]

The computer may be on mute but you can still break the microphone.

Auditory exclusion does not mean that structures in the ear don't get damaged.

There is no physiological magic sphincter that puckers your ear closed faster than the speed of sound.

Auditory exclusion seems to be a term used by the law enforcement and military circles and that means the brain isn't paying attention to signals from the ears.

I know because I heard it somewhere.

[200Apples]

Grumpyoldretiredcop

Harrell's analysis of terminal ballistics is pretty much what you'd expect; shorter shells, lighter payloads, less velocity equal less effectiveness. However, one look at his "meat target" convinces me that they are effective enough at HD ranges to be viable.

I agree.

elk hunter

Mini shells, they work/cycle fine in one of the 3 shotguns I tried them in. For me they will not be my go to shotshell for much of anything.

The best use of minishells would be in my single-shot break-action 12 ga that I shortened to 20", and for very close range based on Harrell's results.





Paladin, in hindsight, I think Farnham was playing it on the safe side in suggesting the sole use of standard-velocity fare. Too, he may have been considering the increased distances necessary if when in outdoor combat. Reduced recoil anything means reduced range, too.