Home Defense / Zombies!!

[randy]

They chose their profession joined the teams have retired with multiples of the highest comendations LAPD have to offer. They did it so we'd be safe. I haven't asked how they sleep none of my business.

If you want to use bird for whatever reason go for it. I'm not worried about being attacked in my home by a quail, duck or chukker.

[AdamM]

It went through 12 sheets of sheetrock. That is OVER PENATRATION for home defence.

More box of truth. Pay attention to theshotgun part.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot14.htm

I didnt say that it wont over penetrate, I said that it penetrates less than people MAY THINK. When people talk about 00BK alot of times they talk about how many walls its going to go through and how a 9mm penetrates less. I just posted that to show that they are fairly equivalent

[AJD]

Birdshot even at almost point blank range has a maximum penetration depth of about 6 inches. And that's where just some of those tiny pellets will make it. Most will penetrate less. And yes, someone will say well the heart is only 3 inches deep on most people. Well, yes, but you still need more penetration, at least 12 inches acording to the IWBA. What do you think the perp is going to be standing like a silloulette target with his hands at his sides giving you a completely unobstructed perfect straight shot at his chest? Oh yeah, there's also something called the ribcage in front of the chest. Also heavy clothing can make a big difference. That's precisely why people in the wound ballistics field do NOT advocate using birdshot for home defense.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm

Birdshot, because of its small size, does not have the mass and sectional density to penetrate deeply enough to reliably reach and damage critical blood distribution organs. Although birdshot can destroy a great volume of tissue at close range, the permanent crush cavity is usually less than 6 inches deep, and this is not deep enough to reliably include the heart or great blood vessels of the abdomen. A gruesome, shallow wound in the torso does not guarantee a quick stop, especially if the bad guy is chemically intoxicated or psychotic. If the tissue crushed by the pellets does not include a vital cardiovascular structure there's no reason for it to be an effective wound.

Many people load their shotguns with birdshot, usually #6 shot or smaller, to minimize interior wall penetration. Number 6 lead birdshot, when propelled at 1300 fps, has a maximum penetration depth potential of about 5 inches in standard ordnance gelatin. Not all of the pellets penetrate this deeply however; most of the shot will penetrate about 4 inches.

[Hamster16]

one thing i also wanted to mention is that my friend who is a lapd officer said in california trying to kill someone and trying to stop someone is the difference between self defense and jail time. if you fire more than once it could be seen as manslaughter if you only fire once then it would be easier to be considered self defense. either way there are many situations where a follow up shot is still gonna be self defense. i just dont ever want to be in front of a jury of anti gun people who think shooting someone more than once means i was trying to kill them not stop them.

[grammaton76]

I've seen too much stuff about winter clothing reducing or eliminating birdshot, to trust it for HD purposes.

#4 and above, eh, it's your call. Birdshot, I would say no.

Reduced recoil 00 is what I use personally.

[BillCA]

I live on a boat and just bought an 870 Marine for fun, target and BD (Boat Defense). My worry is punching a hole through the hull, tanks, etc. However, I do want to 'deep six' any zombie-shark that tries to board me in the middle of the night.

I don't want to use bird shot but I also don't want to over penetrate with 00 Buck or slugs. The middle ground is what, ya think? #1, #2, etc?

Since it appears people are more interested in the urinating match between bird & buckshot, I'll answer your question.

I'd probably go for #1 buckshot. With #4 buckshot you'd have more holes to repair quickly and #1 buckshot gives you more pellets than #00 but still .30 caliber. It'd probably be a good idea to keep a large bag of tapered corks or rubber plugs between 1/4" to 1/2" on hand for emergency plugs.

[TheBundo]

After an honest appraisel, I may take the birdshot out and replace with Buck. Good points brought out, and links. Sure wish there wasn't any who felt the need to be insulting, then it would be perfect.

[grammaton76]

Since it appears people are more interested in the urinating match between bird & buckshot, I'll answer your question.

I'd probably go for #1 buckshot. With #4 buckshot you'd have more holes to repair quickly and #1 buckshot gives you more pellets than #00 but still .30 caliber. It'd probably be a good idea to keep a large bag of tapered corks or rubber plugs between 1/4" to 1/2" on hand for emergency plugs.

If you mean "people plugs" here... tampons and quick-clot are the trick for your typical gunshot wound.

[randy]

Bundo if I weren't insulting maybe you wouldn't have checked into it as much. No harm ment.

Good luck to you.

[Prowler]

You only have one chance to live, live it...don't practice with you or your family's life TESTING WHAT MIGHT BE BETTER FOR SOMEONE ELSE, JUST IN CASE A BULLET, A SLUG, OR DOUBLE 00 BUCK, MIGHT OFFEND THEM OR THEIR PROPERTY. In my humble opinion, that's ignorant and will cause you to lose in a fight or a gun battle. If you have to pull the trigger, it doesn't matter what you shot at them, the consequences are going to be the same. Go ahead and test your defense system that you have in place with shot and let us, or someone in your family can tell us all about later, WHEN YOU'RE DEAD. That's like fighting with one hand because you have years of martial art/defensive fighting tactics training and you're worried about hurting the guy and YOU WANT TO BE FAIR. Remember...they're trying to kill you.

[bowfin]

I'm not worried about being attacked in my home by a quail, duck or chukar.

So explain "buck" shot...

To each his own. Everybody's experiences can lead to different conclusions.

[randy]

Sure Bow use your own conclusions it's your life. If your life and that of your loved ones is worth a couple of rounds of bird shot great. I don't want my wing man to use bird shot.

[r1viking]

I live in an apartment, im definitely using birdshot from fear of hurting the neighbors or my wife thru a wall.

[slick_711]

I live in an apartment, im definitely using birdshot from fear of hurting the neighbors or my wife thru a wall.

Get some #4 Buck. It'll go through dry wall, but not likely two layers with insulation in between and retain any sort of dangerous velocity. 27 pellets per shell, much more effective than birdshot.

[bowfin]

randy,

What have you seen with your own eyes that you have such strong opinions? What did bird shot loads do or didn't do when shot at a living thing at close range?

At the least, go buy a big old ham and blast it with a bird shot load at twenty feet so you have some frame of reference.

Your "I know a guy who said..." doesn't wash when "I am the guy who saw..."

Your thread now, the last word is yours.