Home Defense / Zombies!!

[esskay]

#4 buckshot seems like a reasonable choice, need to go check box o truth.

I was surprised to see a Gunsite instructor on the PDTV show recommending birdshot as a viable home defense round. I wouldn't necessarily be surprised if Dick Metcalf threw out oddball comments but this was a Gunsite instructor...

[TheBundo]

I load birdshot, buckshot, buckshot, buckshot, buckshot, buckshot, slug, slug, slug. Additionally, my side-saddle has 6 more rounds of birdshot.

[AndrewMendez]

The birdshot first, might not be such a bad idea when it comes to the Cops asking questions. That way you can hit him with a buckshot second and say he was still coming after you. But, I have personally seen where someone had been shot with bird shots, multiple times, and left the scene before PD got there, leaving just a small trail of blood!

[meinbruder]

Exactly. I've loaded #4buck for a few years, I've heard it called hamburger helper by veterans. First load is bird shot, followed by #4 and then alternating with 00. The whole raking the slide to load the bird shot is supposed to make the perp pee hi'self right?

#4 buckshot seems like a reasonable choice, need to go check box o truth.

I was surprised to see a Gunsite instructor on the PDTV show recommending birdshot as a viable home defense round. I wouldn't necessarily be surprised if Dick Metcalf threw out oddball comments but this was a Gunsite instructor...

[randy]

People that advocate the use of bird shot for home defense are morons.

[bowfin]

People that advocate the use of bird shot for home defense are morons.

What is the largest living thing anyone has ever seen shot up close (less than 20 feet) with a 12 gauge bird shot load? How did that load perform?

We just had a regrettable incident here in Nebraska where a man accidentally shot his wife of three months dead with a skeet load, while practicing "clearing the house of intruders", whatever that is.

I also remember an article about a pheasant hunter in Montana settling a turf dispute between a grizzly bear and himself with three rounds of #4 steel shot. The charging bear died within seconds.

At ranges of 20 feet and less, I believe the shot column has just barely separated from the wad, if at all. My theory, backed up from my observations of livestock and larger animals shot up close with bird shot is that it acts like a very fragile slug.

I'm not saying it is better than buckshot, but at 20 feet, we are arguing the difference between an atomic bomb or a hydrogen bomb at ground zero.

[Echidin]

I stagger mine, first pump puts a 00 Buck in the chamber, next is a 1oz rifled slug, then buck, slug, buck, slug. If theyre still going after that, ive got my P226R .40 with 4 mags loaded with 180gr HST's and 1 mag with FMJ

Wow, I don't think there would be too many people still going after something like that.

On a side note, I use #4 buckshot, however, birdshot might not be a bad idea either. A few #8 birdshot BB's to the eyes can definitely work in your favor on so many levels.

[randy]

I'm not saying that bird shot won't kill you. A 22 will kill you. If you have been fighting off the unwashed and run out of buck and slugs then I'd use bird if tha't what I had.

But if you buy bird shot for your primary HD load you are a moron.

[BillCA]

For what it's worth...

In urban areas where housing is close together, I like #4 buckshot. For suburban home defense, #1 Buckshot will work very well. #00 Buckshot is popular because it is large and because the police & military have used it for decades.

Lead Bird Shot sizes
#6 - .110"
#5 - .120"
#4 - .130"
#2 - .150"
BB - .180"

Steel Shot sizes
#1 - .16"
BB - .180" 8.8gr
BBB - .19" 10.2gr
T - .20" .... 13.7gr
F - .22" .... 16.2gr

Buckshot pellet sizes (2.75"/3.00" shell pellet count)
#4 Buck - .24" 20.7gr (34/41)
#3 Buck - .25" 23.4gr (20ga-2.75": 20)
#2 Buck - .27" 29.4gr (20ga-3.00": 18)
#1 Buck - .30" 40.5gr (16/24)
#0 Buck - .32" 49gr .. (12)
#00 Buck .33" 53.8gr (9/15)
#000 Buck .36" 70gr . (8/10)

#1 buckshot gives you 50% more pellets that are .30 vs .33 caliber in #00 buck. #1 Buckshot provides almost 3 times the number of pellets, but they are smaller and lighter.

I've seen the results of a 20-gauge #3 buckshot wound to the buttocks/thigh area of a 6' tall man - and it wasn't pretty. (He snuck in to have sex with a 16 y/o girl and dad hit him on the way out the window at 12ft. ) Bloody mess with large chunks and torn meat hanging. About 8 pellets went straight out the front.

My 12ga carries a firing pattern of: 4, 1, 1, 00, 00, slug.
My 20ga carries a firing pattern of: 3, 3, 3, slug, slug.

If I were going to use birdshot indoors, I'd go with BB or larger (T or F sizes). Birdshot can produce some bloody wounds but they lack the penetration of the buckshot pellets.

I avoid using 3" shells for SD. Their recoil is much greater than the 2-3/4" shells and in CQB, follow-up is more important than the power.

[bowfin]

But if you buy bird shot for your primary HD load you are a moron.

[bowfin]

If you have been fighting off the unwashed and run out of buck and slugs

Okay, are you talking one of those Custer's last standAlamo/Zulu/Chinese human wave type scenarios or zombie things that seem to catch everybody's imagination?

If so, then I concede I have no experience and not enough imagination to participate in such a discusstion.

[hkdad]

For what it's worth...

In urban areas where housing is close together, I like #4 buckshot. For suburban home defense, #1 Buckshot will work very well. #00 Buckshot is popular because it is large and because the police & military have used it for decades.

Lead Bird Shot sizes
#6 - .110"
#5 - .120"
#4 - .130"
#2 - .150"
BB - .180"

Steel Shot sizes
#1 - .16"
BB - .180" 8.8gr
BBB - .19" 10.2gr
T - .20" .... 13.7gr
F - .22" .... 16.2gr

Buckshot pellet sizes (2.75"/3.00" shell pellet count)
#4 Buck - .24" 20.7gr (34/41)
#3 Buck - .25" 23.4gr (20ga-2.75": 20)
#2 Buck - .27" 29.4gr (20ga-3.00": 18)
#1 Buck - .30" 40.5gr (16/24)
#0 Buck - .32" 49gr .. (12)
#00 Buck .33" 53.8gr (9/15)
#000 Buck .36" 70gr . (8/10)

#1 buckshot gives you 50% more pellets that are .30 vs .33 caliber in #00 buck. #1 Buckshot provides almost 3 times the number of pellets, but they are smaller and lighter.

I've seen the results of a 20-gauge #3 buckshot wound to the buttocks/thigh area of a 6' tall man - and it wasn't pretty. (He snuck in to have sex with a 16 y/o girl and dad hit him on the way out the window at 12ft. ) Bloody mess with large chunks and torn meat hanging. About 8 pellets went straight out the front.

My 12ga carries a firing pattern of: 4, 1, 1, 00, 00, slug.
My 20ga carries a firing pattern of: 3, 3, 3, slug, slug.

If I were going to use birdshot indoors, I'd go with BB or larger (T or F sizes). Birdshot can produce some bloody wounds but they lack the penetration of the buckshot pellets.

I avoid using 3" shells for SD. Their recoil is much greater than the 2-3/4" shells and in CQB, follow-up is more important than the power.

awesome info there

[hellraiser]

who knew this was such a debate???? when a shotty was the only thing i had i used 3 rounds bird then three rounds 00 buck ... i figured the buck would go trough the walls so i put it last....like a just in case kinda thing

[AndrewMendez]

Besides the ballistic Gel, has anyone seen these tested against walls?

[randy]

If I were worried about Ducks and Phesants attacking me in my house I would buy D&P loads.

The people that make ammo have done the research and testing. If D&P loads were the hot set up then experts would recommend that. It isn't they don't. I've not read this from the experts but I do have friends that are past and presant LAPD training officers, distant (inside joke) relatives that instruct at Gunsite, friends working in the middle east. All people that have or do use firearms for a living.

If you are going to the store to buy ammo for hunting season and that's all you've got at home then that's what you use. If you are going to the store to buy PD ammo and you buy D&P loads then you are an idiot. Buy the Slugs and Buck that were designed to stop the perp.