looking for a side by side shottie

[bjl333]

Get Briley Thin wall choke tubes fitted to your BSS!

[shovelon]

Get Briley Thin wall choke tubes fitted to your BSS!

I actually sent my barrels to Mike Orlen Barrel Services for thinwall TruLock choke tubes. I thought about having Briley do it but they were double the price and would take twice as long. Mike reamed, tapped, and added the 5 chokes for less than $300 counting in the 20% discount he gives Shotgunworld members. His turnaround was 3 days so I had them back in a week and a half.

Looks something like this;

[Ducky's Dad]

OP wants s straight stock. That means in a BSS it would be a Sporter, rather than the regular field BSS. Sporters came in 26" and 28", standard field model came in 26", 28" and 30" (only in 12 gauge). Some of us have had 30" barrels fitted to the Sporter, works real well for clays and late season doves or when it's very windy. If you want to fit TruLock chokes, you can save shipping by taking the gun to Bob Day at AmeriChoke in Pico Rivera.

[RNE228]

STS in Folsom had some older side-by-sides today... Did not check make/model.

[shovelon]

Here is a 28" BSS with straight stock. Current bid $855.

Listed by Martin B. Retting in Culver City. 310-837-2412

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=548008047

[Ducky's Dad]

Here is a 28" BSS with straight stock. Current bid $855.

Listed by Martin B. Retting in Culver City. 310-837-2412

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=548008047

Looks like a nice example, worth driving to Culver City to check out. I doubt they will sell it over the counter because there are already bids on it, but does not hurt to ask. With 12 days to go, that might be a $1200 gun, and worth it in comparison to what else you could buy for $1200.

[Arrieta578]

I'm a huge SxS fan and I've killed a lot of waterfowl with a straight stocked SxS. Having said that, hunting with a SxS does have its considerations.

First, a straight stocked SxS is supposed to be a beautiful, trim, light weight, well balanced, dynamic gun. IMHO, a straight stocked SxS cannot handle the recoil of a 3" shell. It will, over time, fail --either splitting the stock at the back of the top tang or breaking the wrist. The whole side by side thing is predicated on what the English called a square load and there are 2", 2 1/2", and 2 3/4" side by sides. Occasionally you will see a side by side built with 3" chambers, but it is generally going to have a pistol grip and will be tailored to the American gun market --again, just my opinion, but a pistol grip on side by side built for wing shooting is like a Ferrari with a trailer hitch... Just, why?

My recommendation when looking for a side by side would be to first set a budget and then find the best gun that meets that budget. Figure out what you want in that gun... The side by side I shoot pheasants with is going to very different from the gun I shoot chukar or mallards with...

Here are some pictures of my guns to give you an idea...

12 ga. Ugartechea M-30 that I use for ducks:





16 ga. Grulla that I use for clays and pheasants



a 16 ga. Arrieta that I use for pheasants and dog trials and hunt tests.



a 12 ga. Union Armera that I used as a clays gun...

[JagerDog]

Pretty doubles. I notice all have double triggers...which is the general basis for a straight stock by my read.

My only double is a Garcia era 20g Beretta Silver Hawk. Single non-selective trigger, pistol grip, extractors and originally choked full x full. Now wearing Briley thin walls.

I have a Citori 20g Super Sporter with a straight stock. Single selective trigger. I may defeat the selective part though as it's gotten hung in the middle a couple times while chasing ditch chickens.

[wfobase]

those are some awesome pics arrieta578 and great info. looks like ducky's dad pick of the browning bss is popular and maybe more accessible.

its great to find all the different makers. more then what I knew was out there.

in buying a used sxs, is there certain critical areas that should be checked for wear other than just lockup ?

[Arrieta578]

those are some awesome pics arrieta578 and great info. looks like ducky's dad pick of the browning bss is popular and maybe more accessible.

its great to find all the different makers. more then what I knew was out there.

in buying a used sxs, is there certain critical areas that should be checked for wear other than just lockup ?

Honestly, you are going to be hard pressed to find a decent selection of SxSs in California. Ivory Beads in LA was a mecca for great guns, but I believe they closed several years ago. Reeds in San Jose also had some nice Arrietas heavily discounted for years. Cabelas and Scheels in Reno is also a good place to look. But your best bet is going to be to find a gun online and have it shipped to your local FFL. SxS dealers understand the gun game pretty well and most will give you a three day inspection period from the time the gun arrives at your FFL. If you don't like it, you can send it back (your dime on the way back) for a full refund --usually including the shipping fee to your FFL. Most reputable dealers will go to great pains to describe every aspect of the gun to you and provide very high resolution photos before they sell it to you. Right now, SxS prices are depressed and there are some great deals out there.

As to what to check for:

1) Cracked stocks: Most SxSs are "light game guns" designed to shoot 2 3/4" shells at standard velocities (1100-1200fps) with 1oz-1 1/8 of shot. Americans love cannons however (we are really a country of riflemen) and shoot all kinds of heavy loads. As a result, many SxSs are damaged by these heavy loads and end up with hairline cracks in the head of the stock.

2) Barrels off face: Again, because most SxSs were designed as light game guns, heavy loads tend to loosen some actions. The way to check to see if a gun off face is to remove the fore-end, leave the barrels closed and locked up on the action, hold the butt-stock and the action and shake. The barrels should not rattle or move. If they do, then you have a worn hinge pin and the gun is said to be off face.

3) Separated barrels: SxS barrels are usually handmade and either soldered or brazed. The process and differences are somewhat complicated and varied, but the jist is that the barrels need to be joined from end to end without voids. The way to check this is to see if they "ring true". Take the barrels and hold them by the "hook" on your finger. Take a brass rod and lightly tap the tubes from end to end. The barrels should "ring" consistently like a musical instrument up and down without any dead spots.

4) Check for bugger screws: indicates the gun has been disassembled by a hack.

5) Single triggers. The history of the single trigger on a double is dirty, problematic, and inconsistent at best. Modern gun manufacturers have pretty much mastered the double trigger on the O/U --well, sorta, but that's a whole nother story. A side by side is a whole different animal. Buy a side by side with double triggers. That's the way they were intended to be built and shot.

Finally, if you shoot a side by side in competition, you probably won't win most of your events. But you'll be the talk of the town. Hell, I'd loose a skeet shoot with a 95 to some guy's 99 with an autoloader just to be able to say "yea, he was mechanical an all" but "I did it "side by side" and "with style."

Finally, when the huntin is slow --you can always look at the engraving and dream...

[Ducky's Dad]

Split or cracked stocks on a BSS Sporter is a complete non-issue. The guns have a reputation for being pretty much bullet proof in every respect. The only gripes ever leveled at a BSS of any persuasion is that it has heavy barrels and a fairly robust chunk of wood on it. And that is exactly why they are popular for waterfowl and clays.

If you want a similar gun in more of a game gun configuration (NOT what the OP said he was looking for), find a Miroku 500 or a Charles Daly 500. Miroku built the BSS for Browning and the 500 is similar, but different, The 500s have double triggers, lighter barrels, 2-3/4" chambers, and are usually PG and splinter. They came in 12 and 20, and the 12s could be had with 30" barrels. Wood was often a bit nicer than the BSS's, and some 500s came with nice engraving and some were even case colored (hard to find). I have four BSSs and two 500s. Have both 12 and 20, and my 12s have 30" barrels (plus their original 28" barrels). There is a noticeable difference in handling between the BSS and the 500, and they are both really great guns for the money.

There are a lot of variations among the 500s. The BSS has limited variations (barrel length, stock and forend configuration, chokes), and the trigger. The early BSS with the silver trigger is non-selective, and the later gun with the gold trigger is selective. Guns were built in Japan and in Korea with Japanese parts. I have both and there is no difference in quality. There is also a Grade II BSS with more engraving, coin finish, and nicer wood; scarce and expensive.

And the single trigger on the BSS is generally considered to be one of the best single triggers ever built.

[Arrieta578]

Split or cracked stocks on a BSS Sporter is a complete non-issue. The guns have a reputation for being pretty much bullet proof in every respect. The only gripes ever leveled at a BSS of any persuasion is that it has heavy barrels and a fairly robust chunk of wood on it. And that is exactly why they are popular for waterfowl and clays.

If you want a similar gun in more of a game gun configuration (NOT what the OP said he was looking for), find a Miroku 500 or a Charles Daly 500. Miroku built the BSS for Browning and the 500 is similar, but different, The 500s have double triggers, lighter barrels, 2-3/4" chambers, and are usually PG and splinter. They came in 12 and 20, and the 12s could be had with 30" barrels. Wood was often a bit nicer than the BSS's, and some 500s came with nice engraving and some were even case colored (hard to find). I have four BSSs and two 500s. Have both 12 and 20, and my 12s have 30" barrels (plus their original 28" barrels). There is a noticeable difference in handling between the BSS and the 500, and they are both really great guns for the money.

There are a lot of variations among the 500s. The BSS has limited variations (barrel length, stock and forend configuration, chokes), and the trigger. The early BSS with the silver trigger is non-selective, and the later gun with the gold trigger is selective. Guns were built in Japan and in Korea with Japanese parts. I have both and there is no difference in quality. There is also a Grade II BSS with more engraving, coin finish, and nicer wood; scarce and expensive.

And the single trigger on the BSS is generally considered to be one of the best single triggers ever built.

I agree with everything Ducky's Dad wrote here. The BSS guns and the Miroku's are bullet proof. They are, in a sense, the modern Parkers of our time. Rock-solid work horses that will handle the heaviest of loads.

However, all that being said, in my opinion (and take that for what its worth, this is the internet after all) I'd choose an O/U over a BSS or a Miroku. Why? The whole attraction to a SxS is the way the gun "feels" in your hands. No pistol grips and no beaver tail fore-ends. I have a wonderful B.Rizzini 20ga. O/U with a straight stock imported by WLM that feels like the best of side by sides. I'd choose that gun over any BSS 20ga. any day. Why? The "feel" of the gun. I can't describe it other than to say its Zen. Its like the different between shooting a longbow, a recurve, and a compound bow. All are tools that have their place. A compound is the most accurate, without doubt. Then there is the recurve and finally the longbow.

What a feeling when the guy with the longbow out shoots the guy with the recurve and the compound --and it does happen on occasion, even if its a rare occasion.

Said another way... I've seen plenty of people kill a bear with a rifle. But, the video of Fred Bear killing a Polar Bear on the run at 70 yards with one shot from a long bow is absolute "magic." I get a little bit of that feeling every time I kill a mallard or a honker with a straight gripped, light weight side by side, using a 2 3/4" shell of 1 1/8th oz. tungsten-matirx #5. I guess I'm just a sucker for a little bit of magic.

[Arrieta578]

A great gun here:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=546042147

But don't buy it! You can do better on the price. PM me for details.

[JagerDog]

AYA has some nice SxS's.

Merkel too.

[Ducky's Dad]

AYA has some nice SxS's.

Merkel too.

But none that meet the OP's stated criteria.

Uggie 30s are great guns, but they don't meet the OP's stated criteria.

The parameters that OP set out will limit the search to relatively few guns. If he's willing to forgo the 3" chambers, things open up a bunch.