Rimfire Pistol replacement

[Reelemup]

Maybe I'm just tired but I don't know what you're saying.

Either way....I was wrong


From DOJ

Model Gun Type Barrel Length Caliber Exp Date
HP22A (Blue) / Alloy Pistol 3" .22 LR 4/24/2014
HP22A (Nickel) / Alloy Pistol 3" .22 LR 1/31/2015
HP25A (Blue) / Steel, Zinc Pistol 3" .25 ACP 1/31/2015
HP25A (Nickel) / Steel, Zinc Pistol 3" .25 ACP 1/31/2015
HP22A (Blue) / Alloy Pistol 5" .22 LR 4/24/2014
HP22A (Nickel) / Alloy Pistol 5" .22 LR 1/31/2015

Off roster can't be brought in Ca ....if the gun is in Ca can be sold privately with ffl .

[lorax3]

I really like the Browning Buckmark series. They are a little more expensive, $300-500, but you might be able to snag a few used ones on the marketplace.

[10xhobby]

Well I would suggest The S&W 22a target. I have one of these and it is very accurate, eats everything, has a rail for optics, great trigger and has the correct grip angle. Nice gun for around $239.00. Check it out.

The Browning is out of the price range.

[MyOdessa]

I am looking for opinion.


Here is my question: With Ruger boning CA selling off stock, announcing dropping pistols from roster and making tons of cash. Basically being A-Holes.

We currently use 22/45's to train beginner Women Shooters for Women OnTarget program.
I have 6 but planned on buying 6 more over the year.
With Ruger being greedy, I won't be able to. So what other rimfire pistol can I buy that will fit the need?
Refer to criteria above.

This is as uninformed opinion as it gets.

Ruger and Smith and Wesson refuse to participate in California roster because they refuse to manufacture semi-auto handguns with microstamping, required by California law.
They doing it not because they are greedy, but because they are standing up for our Second Amendment right.

Other manufacturers will also fall off roster, unless they build BS microstamping into semi-auto handguns.

[fatrage]

Have you looked at the Phoenix Arms HP22A??

Happy

Goes for 180 new... Is it worth it? NO.

[fatrage]

Maybe I'm just tired but I don't know what you're saying.

Either way....I was wrong


From DOJ

Model Gun Type Barrel Length Caliber Exp Date
HP22A (Blue) / Alloy Pistol 3" .22 LR 4/24/2014
HP22A (Nickel) / Alloy Pistol 3" .22 LR 1/31/2015
HP25A (Blue) / Steel, Zinc Pistol 3" .25 ACP 1/31/2015
HP25A (Nickel) / Steel, Zinc Pistol 3" .25 ACP 1/31/2015
HP22A (Blue) / Alloy Pistol 5" .22 LR 4/24/2014
HP22A (Nickel) / Alloy Pistol 5" .22 LR 1/31/2015

I believe he's referring to PPTs and as long as its not sold from a dealer it can be privately transferred.

[Chaos47]

In modern production 22LR semi auto pistols in nearly the same price range as the Ruger MK series the only one that hold a candle to the Ruger MK series is the Browning Buckmark.

Sure there are other fine 22LR pistols out there but none that are currently produced are anywhere near the Ruger MK Series and the Browning Buckmark.

The HPA22 should not be considered because they are only supposed to be fired with standard velocity ammo. High or Hyper will cause cracked frames. Most available 22LR ammo is High velocity.

Micro tactical pistols should not be considered because they have not stood the test of time. Many of them have allready had large recalls because of broken frames and slides. The new micro 1911 seem promising but again they have not stood the test of time. Who knows if they will start developing cracked frames in a year or two.

Please for the love of God, no one advocate the Sig Mosquito for WOT. We want WOT to be an enjoyable experience. While the Mosquito might be great for practising malfunction drills it is not great to have solid trigger time behind for a new shooter. (mrrabbit I know you vehemently disagree with me and anyone that says a negative word against the Mosquito but please this threads proposed usage just does not jive with the Sig. Trainer pistols have no place or time to be tinkered with, babied and only use one brand/type of ammo. Not to go into detail that they are made of poor materials, are poorly designed and I have even had you agree before, the worst trigger I have ever felt!)

Jacob if you would like to talk more about 22LR you have my info

[CSACANNONEER]

Off roster can't be brought in Ca ....if the gun is in Ca can be sold privately with ffl .

Huh? Care to cite PC? Yea, I thought so. Off roster guns can be imported into CA by those moving here and by those who are exempt from the roster.

This is as uninformed opinion as it gets.

Ruger and Smith and Wesson refuse to participate in California roster because they refuse to manufacture semi-auto handguns with microstamping, required by California law.
They doing it not because they are greedy, but because they are standing up for our Second Amendment right.

Other manufacturers will also fall off roster, unless they build BS microstamping into semi-auto handguns.

Really? So, you think that caving in and not sending firearms behind enemy line is a good thing for 2A rights? Get a clue. They are doing this purely for economic reasons and don't care that they are doing exactly what the antis want them to do.

Well I would suggest The S&W 22a target. I have one of these and it is very accurate, eats everything, has a rail for optics, great trigger and has the correct grip angle. Nice gun for around $239.00. Check it out.

The Browning is out of the price range.

They don't hold up. Every one I've seen has issues within 10K rounds.

[ChuckDizzle]

Have you looked at the Phoenix Arms HP22A??

Happy

He said eats everything it is fed.

[CSACANNONEER]

Jacob,

If you want to stay with just one or two models, I suggest staying with the Rugers you have, find a few more used ones and/or go with Buckmarks.

[MyOdessa]

Huh?

Really? So, you think that caving in and not sending firearms behind enemy line is a good thing for 2A rights? Get a clue. They are doing this purely for economic reasons and don't care that they are doing exactly what the antis want them to do.

Maybe you should get a clue. Microstamping does not work.

[CSACANNONEER]

1. Care to back that up with relevant details and some history? (You avoided the exact same question in another thread earlier by the way...)

2. In spite of #1 - do you really expect all low cost / budget .22LR firearms to last 10,000+ rounds? 20,000+ rounds? 30,000+ rounds? ...before some kind of failure? Does everything last forever in your world?

Note: Before answering #2 - try not to compare a 160.00 HP22A to a 450.00 M&P 22...etc., etc.

I build bicycle wheels. And when customers ask me what to expect life-wise for a basic and finished alloy bicycle wheel used with rim brakes my answer is:

"If you get 30,000 miles or 3 years of daily use before a spoke breaks, or the rim sidewall wears out - you've gotten a great return on your investment."

Nothing lasts forever...some things last longer and price point is one indicator.

=8-)

OK, so I missed responding to a question in another thread. If you would please point out the thread that you want me to respond in, I'll post a response in it.

Every poly framed .22lr I've seen with over 20K (except the 22-45s) has had issues after 20K rounds. This comes from my limited experience over the last 30 years or shooting, the few years I worked PT at an indoor range that rented guns as well as the experience of others who have been involved in firearms rentals, my experience as a firearms instructor and my experience with the exact WOT program that this thread is about. Hell, I bought a used 22-45 a few months ago for the express purpose of using it for this same WOT program and other instructional purposes.

Do I expect all low cost firearms to last forever, no. Hell, I don't expect my a few of my high priced guns to go more than 3000 rounds without dropping a grand into a new barrel. I'm going to invest in spare parts for my .22lr belt fed upper because, I plan on needing some of them at some point even though the upper wasn't cheap. But, what does that have to do with my opinion of what is a good value and what isn't? The OP is looking for inexpensive firearms for an express purpose. These guns will be used by many new shooters who have never fired a firearm before. The last thing we need is function issues on a line of a dozen first time shooters. This would not be the safest thing nor the best thing when introducing new shooters to firearms. We have the responsibility of doing everything we can to keep the program running smoothly, safely and giving the students a safe, positive and pleasant first experience with firearms. These are just some of the reasons I don't bring out some of my more finicky (whether more expensive or less expensive) rimfires for instructional purposes.

As far as the Neos, P22s, 22A, etc go, they can be fun guns to shoot but, they just do not hold up to regular use and will need repair or replacement a lot sooner than a higher quality and more reliable design period. Price point isn't even a factor in my opinion. I'm not against owning guns that are not designed/constructed to last but, I see them as more novelty guns than reliable firearms that will last and work for generations. When someone asked about a first gun or a good value, these guns that are prone to problems after as few as 10-30K rounds should are at the bottom of my list of recommendations. Now, if someone just wants a certain model because, that's what they want, that's fine. Just don't think that it's the best choice for the money. It's only the best choice for that person to fill their want list.

Again, please point me to the thread you want me to respond to.

[CSACANNONEER]

Maybe you should get a clue. Microstamping does not work.

I know that. But, the fact that it doesn't work has nothing to do with why a few companies are caving in to the antis by not complying with the new law and supporting CA gun owners. If these companies wanted to make a political statement and support our 2A rights, they would make the decision to include the required bogus microstamping on their firearms going to CA. Instead, they have made a financial decision to stop supporting CA firearms owners thus, doing exactly what the antis want them to do. So, what "clue" am I missing here? The one that these companies, you, me and every other gun owner does not like the new law even though we know microstamping doesn't work? Hell, I don't care if it works or not, I would not be for it either way.

[Kestryll]

Really? So, you think that caving in and not sending firearms behind enemy line is a good thing for 2A rights? Get a clue. They are doing this purely for economic reasons and don't care that they are doing exactly what the antis want them to do.

Sorry, you're inncorrect.

I chased this topic down for several days at SHOT talking to Ruger and S&W Reps, VP's and legal counsel, NRA lawyers and machining experts.

Material changes such as replacing the forged breech block on an SR22 with a MiM are determined by CA DoJ as being a material change requiring a new certification and testing.
Any changes to function no matter how slight, a .5mm recut of the angle of a lever arm is considered by CA DoJ as being a material change requiring a new certification and testing.

At this point any handgun trying to get on the roster MUST have microstamping as part of it's manufacturing.

Ruger is continuing to submit pistols for lab testing, even when they pass every test CA DoJ is telling the testing lab to not even bother sending the info over unless it has microstamping.

[Kestryll]

If these companies wanted to make a political statement and support our 2A rights, they would make the decision to include the required bogus microstamping on their firearms going to CA.

How?
The technology to include microstamping does not exist, it is theoretical.
Even Lizotto the patent holder has said it is not existent enough to be required by law.
The law say stamped in TWO places, not just the firing pin.

How would you implement it on a factory floor?