Question for the AR/22 shooters out there.

[saki302]

I also posted to the Lakeside forum-

The AW guide is not necessarily the best source to go by- remember the series ban? It's still written on the guide even though it's now defunct. You have to go by the original legal text, and DOJ letters are good sources to keep.

I remember there was a DOJ determination that 100 round cloth belts weren't banned until loaded up- Northridge international was still selling them after the 2K ban because of this. It was posted on Calguns if I remember right....

Links are definitely not covered under the ban when disassembled- hence the poor owners of pre-ban links can never finish the last 11 rounds at the range, keeping the hi-cap linked strip hi-cap so its status never changes (though it could be argued you're rebuilding your existing mag if you shot it empty).

Maybe someone here has a copy of the letter?

Anyhow- I'm guessing $800-1000 is a good price, seeing as how plain jane dedicated .22 uppers (mag fed) are selling in the $500-750 range already.

-Dave

[CSACANNONEER]

I would definitely pay 400-750'ish for a .22lr belt-fed upper.

Plus, I got to AZ and NV enough that I could get use out of 100rd belts

Knowing the quality and customer service of LCM, I wouldn't think twice about buying one of their belt fed uppers for $400-$750. IMHO, pricing them too far over $1000 would put them into more of a niche category. But, LCM has done pretty well in their niche so, it should still sell.

Again, thanks for not cutting CA, HI, NJ, MA, and any other state with "high cap" restrictions out of your customer base.

[CHS]

Please re-read the AW guide:

A large capacity magazine also includes linked ammunition with more
than 10 rounds linked together an ammunition belt with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

The AW guide is not law and is full of all kinds of bad information not backed up by law.

The LAW states that it is only LINKED ammunition which creates a hi-cap mag situation if above 10rd's.

A cloth belt with more than 10 loops is perfectly legal in CA, as is a non-disintegrating metal belt with more than 10 links. The "capacity" doesn't become regulated by the law until there is actually ammunition in the belt.

[Clodbuster]

I would definitely buy one at that price range...then again, you are talking to an LM7 owner.

Ultimately it comes down to the fact that a belt fed 22lr upper limited to 10rds is a bit more cumbersome in CA than a magazine feed upper. And that it may have some limitations that some people are not accustomed to dealing with (i.e. with the new upper, do you still need to run ammo through the slots to make sure the rim is not too thick?). It will be more of a novelty item rather than something utilitarian for most folks who are looking for an alternative caliber to train/shoot with to save on ammo cost.

But I think there will be a few people who were hesistant to spend $1700 on the LM7 that would like to add a belt fed upper to their collection.


Clod

What would a competetive price range be? And would the Razorback be compared price wise to the other mag fed dedicated uppers out there? Those range from 400-750ish in price depending on maker and bells/whistles....

thnaks for the response.

[Clodbuster]

Well, you certainly have the right to do as you please. But those shoe laces are not worth the potential of getting busted for. Especially when the upper seems to run better with the links than the belt.

Clod

The AW guide is not law and is full of all kinds of bad information not backed up by law.

The LAW states that it is only LINKED ammunition which creates a hi-cap mag situation if above 10rd's.

A cloth belt with more than 10 loops is perfectly legal in CA, as is a non-disintegrating metal belt with more than 10 links. The "capacity" doesn't become regulated by the law until there is actually ammunition in the belt.

[Lakeside]

Thanks for all the replies.....It looks as if there would be interest in the Razorback in CA. We will need to have written documentation to accompany the uppers to CA just to cover everyone butt. if anyone has copies of any hi-cap laws or links to them, please forward them to me....


We just released the price for the Razorback. it will be available to purchase at Knob Creek next week. price is 695.00.

[Arteel]

[CSACANNONEER]

Thanks for all the replies.....It looks as if there would be interest in the Razorback in CA. We will need to have written documentation to accompany the uppers to CA just to cover everyone butt. if anyone has copies of any hi-cap laws or links to them, please forward them to me....


We just released the price for the Razorback. it will be available to purchase at Knob Creek next week. price is 695.00.

What kind of documentation are you looking for? "High-cap" documentation only addresses the actual "ammunition feeding devise" not any firearm, upper or other parts. I want one NOW! But, I may wait for SHOT '10 just so that I can fondle one first.

[Lakeside]

the documentationm i'm looking for would be CA law stating that links can be sent there. And/or a non-firearm upper (caliber conversion parts) can be shipped there as well.


as far as SHOT, we are no longer doing those shows. We did vegas and Orlando........it is just a VERY costly and time consuming show to do. the last one in Orlando was a nightmare.....i vowed to never support them again.

instead of dumping thousands of $$ into shows and lose valuable shop time doing it, we decided to focus on the online market and produce DVD's. we have a really cool MG in the works that will likely set a world record......

thanks again fellas!!!

[mds2004]

What is the razorback? Google showed me nothing.

[CHS]

the documentationm i'm looking for would be CA law stating that links can be sent there. And/or a non-firearm upper (caliber conversion parts) can be shipped there as well.

California law says what you CANT do, not what you can do.

Nothing in CA law says that uppers or other firearms parts can't be shipped in. I work at an FFL and we sell uppers, believe me, it's legal.

Also, CA law doesn't say anything about shipping in links, so that is legal as well.

[CSACANNONEER]

California does not have a law allowing links to be shipped here but, they don't have a law stating that they can not be shipped here either. If you don't understand this philosophy, think about this, California does not have a law stating that it is legal to ship dumb liberals here from other states but, obviously it's legal. I hope that someday we can ship them all back to the states they belong in though.

BTW, I just got off the phone with Michelle. I ordered the springs!!! Thanks!!!!!

We need pictures & videos of the Razorback in action. Also, would you be interested in some kind of group buy deal for us poor folks in California?

[ar15barrels]

I know you are talking about 22 and belt/nylon feeding device but in general, high capacity device can still be shipped to California as long as it is disassembled and will be use to replace damaged parts of existing hi-cap mags or turn it to a maximum 10 round device.

There's more to it than that.
The rebuilt magazine STILL needs to fit the original gun that the OLD magazine was designed for.
You can't take apart an AR magazine and rebuild it into an AK magazine.
You can't take apart an AR magazine and rebuild it into a belt as the belt would not work in the same gun as the magazine does.

Also, once a high capacity belt (imported into CA pre 2000) is used down below 11 rounds, it can NEVER be rebuilt into a high capacity belt again.

[CSACANNONEER]

You can't take apart an AR magazine and rebuild it into a belt as the belt would not work in the same gun as the magazine does.

Ah, then it would be legal to rebuild a HK 21 box mag into a belt, if there was one part in common. Right? This is purely academic since, there are no interchangable parts.

[50BMGBOB]

First off let me say welcome to Eric (Lakeside). Eric is a great guy and has wonderful costumer service. I do love my mini 1919.

I use both the cloth 10 round belts that came with the kit and links I got from one of his vendors (Venture, LLC) in mine. When I ordered the links, Rick Dumas of Venture, LLC told me that the CADOJ had told him that he could only ship links in bags of 10 to CA so I got a box with 100 bags with 10 links to a bag. Rick even gave me the bulk rate on all the links. While I think that this is FUD from the CADOJ, he felt that by doing it that way he was covering his but if someone here didn't follow the law and linked more than 10 rounds. I still got the 1,000 links I wanted so when I go out of state I can link more than 10 rds. I have thousands of links for my full size 1919 too. Links are legal to own, just don't link more than 10 rds. No, relinking is not repairing a hicap mag but if you had a belt of 11 rds or more before the ban then you can add links to it, just never shoot down past 11 rds or you can't add more to make it over 10 rds again.

I am not a lawyer but I would stay away from any cloth belts bigger than 10 rds.