Lets talk 3x magnifiers

[AlHO1966]

Im trying to decide on an optic for this AR I would like to have as a range toy but maybe pull double duty as a HD or SHTF gun. This gun plain runs and runs really well.

Im thinking about doing a dot with a magnifier. What am I getting into here? Do any of you who use this set up and just wish you would have went with a 1-4x scope?

Is it cumbersome having the dot and having to work the magnifier?

Im looking at these two options

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1022300378?pid=826185

Or

https://www.amazon.com/Trijicon-TR24R-AccuPoint-1-4x24mm-Riflescope/dp/B001QT3WWM/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=trijicon+accupoint&qid=1586632017&s=hi&sr=8-4

[jonnyt16]

My thoughts on this matter can be found just a few threads below... https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1600656

In summary, for general purpose, and especially if home defense may come in to play, I recommend the magnifier/red-dot combo over an LPVO. I actually just sold the same exact Accupoint you're thinking about and went with the Trijicon 3x magnifier for one of my rigs.

It is not cumbersome at all using a magnifier. As a matter of fact, I find it easier and faster slapping the magnifier over than turning the adjustment ring on a scope.

Everyone is different and has varying preferences but for me personally I much prefer a red-dot sight (which will always be faster than an LPVO at 1 setting) with a flip-to-side magnifier behind it.

[AlHO1966]

My thoughts on this matter can be found just a few threads below... https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1600656

In summary, for general purpose, and especially if home defense may come in to play, I recommend the magnifier/red-dot combo over an LPVO. I actually just sold the same exact Accupoint you're thinking about and went with the Trijicon 3x magnifier for one of my rigs.

It is not cumbersome at all using a magnifier. As a matter of fact, I find it easier and faster slapping the magnifier over than turning the adjustment ring on a scope.

Everyone is different and has varying preferences but for me personally I much prefer a red-dot sight (which will always be faster than an LPVO at 1 setting) with a flip-to-side magnifier behind it.

Thanks for the reply. I run a c-more on my PCC competition AR-9 it has a 6.5 moa dot and I do notice some distorted edges from an astigmatism would the 3x magnifier make this issue worse?

[The War Wagon]

If you CAN'T have dedicated rifles (CQB & longer distance), I'd go the LPVO route.


My dedicated SPR wears a Vortex Viper PST 1 x 6x24. All my other AR's are CQB, and have un-magnified Aimpoint T-1's.

Interestingly enough, I have a Leupold Mk.IV C/QT on my PTR-91. That's a 1 x 3x14, with an etched reticle that also illuminates. AWESOME piece of kit for me, because I'm IN the urban cessmaze. Even with .308 punch, a L-O-N-G range shot for me (were it to all "hit the fan"), MIGHT be... 300 yards. At MOST. UN-even terrain, and too many terrain features (trees and buildings), means that MOST of my work, would be CQB work - EVEN from an upper floor or the rooftop!

Magnifiers were at best, an, "ok" idea, 10 - 15 years ago. The LPVO has all but made them obsolete.

[jonnyt16]

Thanks for the reply. I run a c-more on my PCC competition AR-9 it has a 6.5 moa dot and I do notice some distorted edges from an astigmatism would the 3x magnifier make this issue worse?

I think that depends on the particular red dot you are using but I can't speak from experience since I don't have an astigmatism. I'm sure others here may be able to comment more accurately. I would research the subject as well. I can say that the magnifier sharpens up the "fuzzyness" that the Eotech reticles are known to have.

[jonnyt16]

If you CAN'T have dedicated rifles (CQB & longer distance), I'd go the LPVO route.


My dedicated SPR wears a Vortex Viper PST 1 x 6x24. All my other AR's are CQB, and have un-magnified Aimpoint T-1's.

Interestingly enough, I have a Leupold Mk.IV C/QT on my PTR-91. That's a 1 x 3x14, with an etched reticle that also illuminates. AWESOME piece of kit for me, because I'm IN the urban cessmaze. Even with .308 punch, a L-O-N-G range shot for me (were it to all "hit the fan"), MIGHT be... 300 yards. At MOST. UN-even terrain, and too many terrain features (trees and buildings), means that MOST of my work, would be CQB work - EVEN from an upper floor or the rooftop!

Magnifiers were at best, an, "ok" idea, 10 - 15 years ago. The LPVO has all but made them obsolete.

Yes it is important to take in to consideration one's environment and application of use for a rifle. I also have a SPR (wears a Trijicon Accupower 3-9x40) as well as "CQB" rifles with red-dots only.

However, my favorite rifles as of late have been my two that have both red-dot and magnifier. I have to disagree that this setup is "okay at best" or that they are obsolete. I hate using this as an example but there are many individuals both in local and federal law enforcement that still deploy this combination. Believe me on that. And I don't think companies like Trijicon and Eotech are in the business of manufacturing and expanding on gear that is obsolete.

Of course, there is a trade-off with everything, especially when it comes to optics. But I greatly enjoy the advantages that the red-dot/magnifier combo gives me over a LPVO....bigger field of view and unlimited eye relief when using just the sight (not to mention quicker acquisition of dot and target) and lightning fast 3x magnification when you want or need it. More magnification is possible as well--there are some 6x out there as well as Eotech's soon to be released 5x.

[etwinam]

I run a 2.5-10x44 Viper PST on my 18" SPR and an MRO with 3x magnifier on my 16" lightweight rig.

I love the viper but the MRO just works for me.... it's the 2 MOA, the 68 MOA ring would be nice but wasn't an option when I bought mine.

I went with a Burris 3x and I kind of would like to try the Trijicon version... price isn't bad.

The 2.5-10 is a superior optic for overall but the 3x is nice just very limiting; you only get 1x or 3x

[The War Wagon]

I hate using this as an example but there are many individuals both in local and federal law enforcement that still deploy this combination.

A couple of thoughts on THAT.


Unless you're SWAT, or HRT, how MANY rifles are you gonna have access, to on the job? EVEN if you're a good beat cop or trooper, how many rifles could you cram in cop car these days, since the Crown Vics are almost all gone? The beat cop might hafta surround a crack house in the inner city one week, and the Branch Davidians - from a mile away - the next. Their one rifle, has to do it all.

I'm not exactly J.P. Moneybags, and I have 6 AR's. But I've also owned AR's since 1991. EVERYBODY has to start somewhere. I didn't own TWO at the same time, until 2008. The magnifier (if it's good quality) serves it's purpose. Were I in a situation where I HAD to have one, I'd ALSO keep working towards that day, where I DIDN'T hafta have one.

[jonnyt16]

Unless you're SWAT, or HRT, how MANY rifles are you gonna have access, to on the job? EVEN if you're a good beat cop or trooper, how many rifles could you cram in cop car these days, since the Crown Vics are almost all gone? The beat cop might hafta surround a crack house in the inner city one week, and the Branch Davidians - from a mile away - the next. Their one rifle, has to do it all.

Not sure if serious or not...?

I can guarantee you a patrol unit or "beat cop" will not be engaging a threat from a mile away. Not even half that, not even a quarter of that, not even 1/8 of that distance. That's probably why you rarely (if at all) see a patrol officer with a scope or LPVO on top of his or her carbine.

Anyway, I am not saying one option is better than the other. The OP asked for feedback and I gave him some based on my own personal experience. That experience contains several 2-gun and 3-gun matches, timed drills, and courses that my group and I set up for fun. Not to mention lots of training in between. In every single one of those things I have consistently scored better overall with a red-dot/magnifier combo than with my LPVO. The holes in cardboard and the shot timer do not lie. Now granted, we are not talking about distances of over a 100 yards, but we are talking about distances that I am statistically more likely to encounter a deadly threat to myself or family.

No matter what, above all else, the thing that matters most is TRAINING.

God Bless and happy Easter to you all.

[redcliff]

I like the Sig Romeo sights and Juliet magnifier/mount combo's. Great prices on some high quality optics imho. You might want to google some reviews on Youtube.

I just ordered the Juliet 3x magnifier/mount for just under $300 with email coupon from Heart of Texas Armory to go with my Romeo 5 green predator

[audiophil2]

A magnifier will also magnify the dot.
Red dots on ar's are good to 500 yards. Why magnify?

[jonnyt16]

A magnifier will also magnify the dot.
Red dots on ar's are good to 500 yards. Why magnify?

It will magnify the dot yes, no different than a first focal plane LPVO. Plus most red-dots (at least the more popular ones) are 1 or 2 MOA in size so its not an issue.

The reason to magnify is to get faster and easier hits at greater distances. Also just as important is target identification. One can hit a target at 500 yards without magnification but it is extremely difficult (if not impossible) for the human eye to positively ID at that distance.

[ZombieLivesMatter]

Whatever setup you do decide on, practice and train if it’s going to be HD/SHTF like you said it would be used for. I’ve used them all, starting with Eotech with magnifier, then NF 1-4x LPVO, and now run a 4x fixed scope with offset red dot. They all worked well just need to train and become accustomed to whatever setup you go with.

[Powder_Keg]

I’ve never been a fan of the red dot plus separate flip away 3x magnifiers. Too clunky and takes up too much room.

If you are ok with the little extra weight and you want the option of magnification, just go with a 1-6x scope.

If you want to keep it light and you don’t want to deal with eye relief, you can’t beat a red dot. You can shoot with both eyes opened and get on target quicker.

[4Defense]

A magnifier will also magnify the dot.
Red dots on ar's are good to 500 yards. Why magnify?

Well now c'mon Phil . You gotta go ninja sometimes.