Need help leveling my scope

[HK Dave]

Keep in mind OP, not sure if anyone mentioned this yet, the reticle needs to be plumb to EARTH. Whether its level with your rifle or base or mount doesn't really matter except it would look weird if your scope was at a 45 degree angle. In other words, dont sweat it too much.

[joefrank64k]

What HK Dave said...

[Whiterabbit]

I use a plumb bob and a construction level.

Why?

Because I used a machinists level once, and beat myself up for half an hour trying to level the rifle. You just don't need that kind of accuracy to level a scope. Frankly, good luck finding two surfaces on any rifle level enough to be 1-tic mark away on a machinist's level.

I'm sure the feeler gauges is OK too, but for me a construction-grade bubble level and a plumb bob placed as far away as possible does a great job.

[Horrendo Revolver]

Keep in mind OP, not sure if anyone mentioned this yet, the reticle needs to be plumb to EARTH. Whether its level with your rifle or base or mount doesn't really matter except it would look weird if your scope was at a 45 degree angle. In other words, dont sweat it too much.

This. I've mounted hundreds of scopes at work and also have a small optics mounting business. Many scopes that I mounted perfectly level with the rifle looked canted to the customer, they were not. Reason being that the most comfortable position for holding a rifle is canted, not level for the majority of people. So the scope needs to be level with gravity as stated above.

Someone made a comment to the effect of how accurate the human eye can be and someone disagreed. The person who disagreed was wrong.

I've also mounted optics where there was not a level surface to be found on the rifle, the scope and a few times both. Then what do you do?. There is a gentleman in Montana who makes a reticle leveler that doesn't use levels and it works very well - the Reticle-True(Google it). Or use a plum line.

Also instead of using two bubble levels, a Segway reticle leveler on the rifle and a bubble level on the scope works better.

[FourT6and2]

Keep in mind OP, not sure if anyone mentioned this yet, the reticle needs to be plumb to EARTH. Whether its level with your rifle or base or mount doesn't really matter except it would look weird if your scope was at a 45 degree angle. In other words, dont sweat it too much.

Dave, I've said this same thing multiple times on this forum only to get chewed out. Folks just don't understand, so I wouldn't bother. The bullet doesn't care what orientation your rifle is in, it only cares about gravity and the horizon. Nice to see someone actually using their brain for a change though haha!

[67Cuda]

Like hermosabeach mentioned, do it by eye.

Unless your in the business of mounting scopes I wouldn't waste my money on a tool when I can do just as good a job by eye.

[Horrendo Revolver]

Like hermosabeach mentioned, do it by eye.

Unless your in the business of mounting scopes I wouldn't waste my money on a tool when I can do just as good a job by eye.

What I would do if I were in the OP's shoes.

[CandG]

Point the rifle towards a distant vertical object (utility pole, corner of a building, etc), and prop it up with sandbags/pillows/shoes/whatever until it looks level. Mount the scope, rotate it until the crosshair is level with the distant object.

Done.

Honestly it's not the end of the world if you're off by 1 or 2 degrees. If you are shooting at 1000 yards, and make a 12moa (roughly 10 feet worth of POI movement) elevation adjustment on your scope that's 2 degrees out-of-level, you'll only be off by 4" left or right.

[BadMatt]

My friend leveled my AR scope by putting the rifle in a bench vise (wrapped the barrel in a towel) and we used $10 mini levels from home depot. We eyeballed the crosshairs too.

[waveslayer]

Point the rifle towards a distant vertical object (utility pole, corner of a building, etc), and prop it up with sandbags/pillows/shoes/whatever until it looks level. Mount the scope, rotate it until the crosshair is level with the distant object.

Done.

Honestly it's not the end of the world if you're off by 1 or 2 degrees. If you are shooting at 1000 yards, and make a 12moa (roughly 10 feet worth of POI movement) elevation adjustment on your scope that's 2 degrees out-of-level, you'll only be off by 4" left or right.

1 degrees of cant equals 5" and at 2 degrees it's 10" which is a miss for some, especially if your target is a 10" piece of steel.

It's very important, not trying to hurt feelings etc, but stating poor advice is poor advice. Garbage in garbage out.

It's simple to level a scope. Plum line, take a level at 100 yards and draw a leveled cross hairs and line your scope up.

It's easy to do.

The hardest part is ensuring your gun's pre tapped holes or picatinny rail was mounted/drilled level to the receiver . That's where head aches really start.

So canting a little is a big deal and a major issie. Most guys not using a level miss shots a lot, their dope is correct, they just canted their rifles.

My wife thinks I only have 3 guns

[CandG]

1 degrees of cant equals 5" and at 2 degrees it's 10" which is a miss for some, especially if your target is a 10" piece of steel.

It's very important, not trying to hurt feelings etc, but stating poor advice is poor advice. Garbage in garbage out.

No, my math was right. A 12moa elevation adjustment with a 2 degree cant at 1000 yards would send the POI left or right (depending on which way it's canted) about 4.25". I think your math was assuming it would be +/- 4.25 inches, meaning up to 8.5", but that's not how it works, because the scope can only be canted one way or the other, not both at the same time.

But let's say you're right, 10 inches is still not that much when you're talking about a 1000 yard shot and doing 10 feet worth of elevation adjustment. Trust me, if you just did 10 feet worth of turret adjustments, your very next shot probably wasn't going to hit the steel anyways. Also, OP says he's using an AR, so he's not likely shooting more than 1/3 the distance in my example. a 12moa elevation adjustment at 300 yards with a 2-degree scope cant only equates to a 1.25" shift in POI left or right. Or 3" according to your math. Either way, not enough to justify spending a whole bunch of time and money rectifying it.

[waveslayer]

No, my math was right. A 12moa elevation adjustment with a 2 degree cant at 1000 yards would send the POI left or right (depending on which way it's canted) about 4.25". I think your math was assuming it would be +/- 4.25 inches, meaning up to 8.5", but that's not how it works, because the scope can only be canted one way or the other, not both at the same time.

But let's say you're right, 10 inches is still not that much when you're talking about a 1000 yard shot and doing 10 feet worth of elevation adjustment. Trust me, if you just did 10 feet worth of turret adjustments, your very next shot probably wasn't going to hit the steel anyways. Also, OP says he's using an AR, so he's not likely shooting more than 1/3 the distance in my example. a 12moa elevation adjustment at 300 yards with a 2-degree scope cant only equates to a 1.25" shift in POI left or right. Or 3" according to your math. Either way, not enough to justify spending a whole bunch of time and money rectifying it.

Obviously you're not a long range shooter. It's a big deal and 1000 yards with an AR is very doable. Factor in spin drift and your math is off even more. But I guess I'm wrong, and so is Bryan Litz...

My wife thinks I only have 3 guns

[CandG]

You don't have to be an expert marksman to understand geometry. But your point about an off-cant scope causing the bullet's spin-drift to affect the POI differently than a level scope would is clearly well-informed, so I'll stop arguing. I had no idea that how a scope is mounted affected spin drift, you learn something new every day. Please post some more random ballistics terminology unrelated to line-of-sight geometry so I can keep learning.

[CandG]

Ah, I see where you are confused now. You're reading this article: http://www.accurateshooter.com/optic...int-of-impact/.

Yes, if you shoot a rifle at 1000 yards with a level scope/rifle, and THEN cant the whole rifle 2 degrees (and make no turret adjustments), then YES, your POI will be off by 10 inches or more. You're absolutely right about that, except that's not even close to what we're talking about. I'm talking about a level rifle and a scope that is mounted (that was the OP's question) at 2-degrees off-cant, and adjusting the elevation turret between shots. Those are 2 completely different things dude. And my math is absolutely correct. Yours is correct too, but for a totally different thing that nobody in this thread asked about.

We're talking about the consequences of having a scope that's always canted 2 degrees, not the consequences of shooting with a level rifle and then canting it 2 degrees and shooting again. If we were talking about that, which is a topic for a whole other thread about a whole different thing, then your math would be right and I wouldn't be arguing with you.