Classic have Russian M91/30 Mosin Nagant Rifles for $99

[peppermintman]

Molot is the exporter, not the original factory. The original factory was Izhevsk, the maker of the most common round-receiver 91/30.



The Molot diamond here is not an original factory mark.

I don't think so too and that what all the conspiracy theorists say too, not to mention all those other marks also.

When did Molots start appearing???

[lasbrg]

At least on both of these, they would be covered by the handguard.

True, better there than the side of the receiver, like the M38s and M44s.

[lasbrg]

I don't think so too and that what all the conspiracy theorists say too, not to mention all those other marks also.

When did Molots start appearing???

The milsurp Molot-exported guns first appeared about a year ago I believe. This seems to me to match well with that Shotgun News article saying that there was a Russian government directive for a large cache of old, stockpiled guns to be "disposed of" by 2015.

[emcon5]

I don't think so too and

The <ГИС> mark is new, and it has nothing to do with Molot. What it actually is has been explained to you several times now.

that what all the conspiracy theorists say too, not to mention all those other marks also.

What do the conspiracy theorists say?

All former Soviet Mosins are reworks, many several times since WW2. Many of the marks on them are unknown.

When did Molots start appearing???

Do you even read the threads you start? http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...7&postcount=12

The first batch of Molot processed rifles was July of last year.

I know some people seem to think that Molot is monkeying with these rifles in some way. I have yet to see any evidence at all of that. The fact that these rifles are selling for the prices they are makes that seem very unlikely. I have not heard anything about the current batches, but the first batch of PU snipers came from Bryansk military storage facility. Tuco on gunboards was trying to buy them, and looked at them.

The economic reality is that labor costs money, even in Russia, and if Molot was spending any significant time on these, they would probably lose money at the prices they are selling.

What I believe Molot is doing, is transporting the rifle crates from Bryansk , inspecting and sorting the rifles, doing some basic cleanup, removing most of the cosmoline (so they can be test fired for the proof house), having them proofed in accordance with Russian/C.I.P rules, marking them for export and boxing them up for shipment. I could see them swapping out minor parts, (missing cleaning rod, cracked handguard, etc)but beyond that, I just don't see it.

The crappy shellac on my Molot rifles looks the same as it did on my Ukrainian imports. The finish is similar. The markings are similar, except the C.I.P proof and Molot added S/N and model number.

Think about it. Even if Molot got the rifles for free, there is the cost of proofing, the cost of labor to process them, any local fees, export/import duties, bribes (this is Russia after all), the cost to ship them halfway around the world, then the Importer marks them up to cover their costs and make a profit, then they ship them to Classic, who marks them up again and sells them for $99.

Just doesn't seem likely.

[peppermintman]

Here's another interesting Molot thread

Still reading all the conspirator Molot threads and people lots and lots of opinions. Guys read Longcolt44 comment.

http://russian-mosin-nagant-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=11391

[emcon5]

Still reading all the conspirator Molot threads and people lots and lots of opinions. Guys read Longcolt44 comment.

http://russian-mosin-nagant-forum.co...p?f=64&t=11391

Scoll down and read the post from "martin08".

How may different Soviet refurb depots do you think there were? Is it realistic to think every rifle refurb over 60-odd years, at who knows how many facilities would refurb each of the ~37 million Mosin Nagants exactly the same?

I had two (non-Molot) 1943 Izhevsk 91/30s and the machining on the receivers wasn't even the same, and they were made at the same factory in the same year. One had a stock that looked to have been treated with pine tar, the other is very blonde, and appears to be arctic birch.

I wouldn't be surprised if people badmouthing Molot rifles is to try and increase the perceived value of the earlier Ukrainian imports.

Yes, it sucks that they have extra proof marks. Yes, I wish they didn't have them. But the alternative is no rifles from Russia. Up to you.

[lasbrg]

Still reading all the conspirator Molot threads and people lots and lots of opinions. Guys read Longcolt44 comment.

http://russian-mosin-nagant-forum.co...p?f=64&t=11391

In the photos on the Classic web page, the finish looks the same as the arsenal refinish on other, non-Molot imported, Mosins: http://www.classicfirearms.com/c-r-eligible/m44rifle

For collecting purposes, ideally you would have an un-issued rifle from the original factory. If it was used, then it should be documented, like a bring-back. What we are getting now are either rifles in beat-up condition, like the Type 53s or Type 56s, or else the factory refinished 91/30s, M38s and M44s. I'm not impressed by this Longcolt44 guy's opinion.

[lasbrg]

Scoll down and read the post from "martin08".

Worth a re-post ...

[peppermintman]

lasbrg thanks for the copy and paste of that thread.

I don't mind at having my M&N's refurb done 60 years ago. Reading the threads about Molots and hearing words like monkeying around or tinkering with the rifles is "food for thought." Sure these rifles are Russian made but when the refurb was done? That's what many talk about, the refinishing of the metal and the wood. Longcolt44 did a pretty good examination of his rifle and he included the pics. That site has many conspiracy theorists talking about them. I'd like to see more pictures on the Molot and see for myself just how nice of a refinishing job was done. I only have two M&N's and those new marks ain't on mine. Just look too new to me. Bad enough the import mark is there but gotta live with that. But markings hidden under the handguard is another thing, why hide it I'm sure this new batch of refurbished rifles are going to shoot well. Just interesting this subject popped up again emcon5. I ain't the only one reading those threads.

Just look at the retailers that sell Mosins and you'll see they are everywhere.

[lasbrg]

Just look at the retailers that sell Mosins and you'll see they are everywhere.

I thought that might be the case, but I haven't seen this new batch anywhere else yet but Classic. Who else has them?

[peppermintman]

[QUOTE=lasbrg;12824953]I thought that might be the case, but I haven't seen this new batch anywhere else yet but Classic.

[peppermintman]

[QUOTE=peppermintman;12825255]

I thought that might be the case, but I haven't seen this new batch anywhere else yet but Classic.

http://russian-mosin-nagant-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=12060

Is this when they started showing up?

[emcon5]

lasbrg thanks for the copy and paste of that thread.

That was the thread you are citing as evidence, and you didn't actually read it?

I don't mind at having my M&N's refurb done 60 years ago. Reading the threads about Molots and hearing words like monkeying around or tinkering with the rifles is "food for thought." Sure these rifles are Russian made but when the refurb was done? That's what many talk about, the refinishing of the metal and the wood.

The funny thing is that "Many" seems to be confined to that one board. The only person talking about Molot's being recent refurbs on Calguns is you, and from what I can tell, only from your reading of that forum.

We have no idea when they were refurbished, or by who. Yes, it is certainly possible Molot is spending 5 or 6 hours per rifle and then selling them for $100, but is it likely?

The first batch of Molot processed rifles, the IO imported PU snipers sold by AIM and Classic came from the Bryansk military storage facility, it is reasonable to speculate that the other rifles have as well. Even if not, they are coming from other Russian facilities, that in all likelihood these are the first rifles to come out of Russian facilities. There is no reason to assume that a depot in Ukraine would use the exact same procedure as one in Russia, even though when they were mothballed they were both part of the Soviet Union. We don't know how long before they were stored they were refurbished.

Longcolt44 did a pretty good examination of his rifle and he included the pics. That site has many conspiracy theorists talking about them. I'd like to see more pictures on the Molot and see for myself just how nice of a refinishing job was done.

Go back to when the PUs showed up, there are literally dozens of threads, between here and Gunboards (both the collectors and sniper forums) posting a bunch of detailed photos of them. The same thing happened when Classic and AIM first got M38s. Many threads, lots of detailed photos.

There were a few people on Gunboards who were originally skeptical of the PU Snipers, thinking they were recently assembled, but the mass of photos of the rifles convinced them (all but one guy, named "Lenscrafter" but I think he is sitting on a pile of Rguns snipers that became 25% less valuable when the IO imports showed up).

Yeah, "Longcolt44" thinks he got a recent rework, that is 1 rifle. I also see 2 refurb stamps on his barrel shank, so no telling how long ago it happened, or by who.

I only have two M&N's and those new marks ain't on mine. Just look too new to me.

That is because, again, the marks are new, and are required for any rifle being sold from Russia.

Bad enough the import mark is there but gotta live with that. But markings hidden under the handguard is another thing, why hide it

Well, why wouldn't you hide it? C.I.P rules make them put a proof mark on the action, bolt and barrel. It would be interesting to see what the CIP rules say about location on each component, and if it mandates any be visible without dissembling the firearm.

I'm sure this new batch of refurbished rifles are going to shoot well.

Any Mosin coming out of the former Soviet Union is going to be refurbished, unless you dig it out of the mud near Volgograd.

Just interesting this subject popped up again emcon5. I ain't the only one reading those threads.

It only popped up because you brought it up.

Just look at the retailers that sell Mosins and you'll see they are everywhere.

Again, any firearm coming out of Russia MUST have C.I.P. proof marks. One of these three:



It has to be there. From everything I have seen, including comments by two of the most respected members of the Mosin collecting community, all Molot is doing is processing them for export and dealing with the proofing.

We never saw them before, because all the previous imports came from Ukraine, and Ukraine is not a member of C.I.P. and does not require additional proofing.

PW arms imported some, IO imported some, as did Group West. I haven't heard of Century importing any yet, but I wouldn't be surprised. I have heard of them for sale at some retailers (Cabela's and Gander Mountain, I think).

They will certainly be available more places, unless more rifles appear from Ukraine. You may not remember, but Mosins dried up there for a while. None of the major players had any in stock. Does that mean Ukraine is out? I hope not, but we will have to wait and see.

What I am really curious about is Mausers. With Russia selling rifles now, I wonder if there is a warehouse somewhere full of K98s. Tula processed some early 2012, sold by Century, hopefully that was just a test to feel out the market and there are more coming. I also hope Molot processes them rather than Tula, because Tula did a crappy job. You think the Molot markings are bad, you should see the Tula K98s. http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...Century-sucked (have to be logged in to see the photos, unfortunately.

[emcon5]

http://russian-mosin-nagant-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=12060

Is this when they started showing up?

No, the first batch of Molot processed rifles were the PU snipers, around July 2012. The next I remember was the M38s, from February 2013, and the M44s, slightly (month maybe?) after, that rifle may have been from that first batch of M44s.

You want to know the exact dates, search this forum, just the titles for "Classic", there was an announcement thread when each showed up.

On edit, that search is probably a good idea if you want to see lots of photos of the rifles, there are a few photo threads.

[peppermintman]

No, the first batch of Molot processed rifles were the PU snipers, around July 2012. The next I remember was the M38s, from February 2013, and the M44s, slightly (month maybe?) after, that rifle may have been from that first batch of M44s.

You want to know the exact dates, search this forum, just the titles for "Classic", there was an announcement thread when each showed up.

On edit, that search is probably a good idea if you want to see lots of photos of the rifles, there are a few photo threads.

As far as the word New Batches Classic has them.