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I have the newly updated dates of manufacture, and production numbers for Winchesters. Larry Shennum and Bert Hartman just compiled these dates from the Winchester Polishing Room records, and miles of microfilm converted to jpg. files.
The dates in the Blue Book, and any you find online, are based on the Madis data, and are severely flawed. Your "Antique" may be a C&R, or visa versa!
Post the model and serial number, use X's if you're worried about that stuff, but give me at least the first 3 digits, and I'll give you the DOM, and production numbers if I have them. A few models were not serial numbered, and a few there are no serial number records, but both have production numbers and the years produced.
Models list:
Henry Rifle, 1886, 1873, 1876, Hotchkiss Rifle, 1885, 1886, 1887, 1890, 1892, 1893, 1894, 1895, 1897, 1900, 1901, 1902, 99 Thumb Trigger, 1903, 1904, 1905, 1906, 1907, 1910, 1911, 12, 20, 21, 24, 25, 36, 37, 40, 41, 42, 43, 47, 50, 52, 53, 54, 55 Lever, 55 .22, 56, 58, 59 .22, 59 shotgun, 60, 60A, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 67, 677, 68, 69, 697. 70, 71, 72, 74, 75, 77, 88, 100, 190, 250, 270, 290
Reposting this to this thread so it doesn't get lost:
I've been asked more than once, why almost all the sources for Winchester manufacture dates, for all the various models of Winchesters, is flawed. This is the answer in short, with the reason for the importance of correcting it.
A man named George Madis compiled the Winchester DOM's after he salvaged the Winchester records from a dumpster. He gets major kudos for that!
Unfortunately, many of the records were destroyed or missing, so he simply made up the rest.
The Winchester collector world accepted his word on all things Winchester as gospel. Until recently!
My friend Bert Hartman among others started digging around in the Cody Museum basement, and discovered boxes full of microfilm containing all the Polishing Room Records. Some unknown hero had the forethought to record the records on microfilm.
Bert and others painstakingly transferred all the microfilm to jpeg. files.
The Polishing room is when and where each receiver got it's serial number. That is the actual "Date of Manufacture".
Depending on production demands, some serialed receivers made late in the year, "may have been" assembled and sold early in the next year.
Since the Madis information was never questioned, until now, it was taken as gospel and reprinted almost everywhere you seek the info.
The Blue Book of Gun Values has now been the first source to the public, to print the revised DOM's..... but the resistance to acknowledge this info is still strong.........it's still printed alongside the old Madis info.
Why the resistance to acceptance of the accurate information?
Serious Winchester collectors have a substantial investment wrapped up in their collections. When your valuable "Antique", suddenly becomes a less valuable "C&R", or your low number production year suddenly falls into a year that set a production record, you wouldn't want the unknowing sucker to see that, before you unloaded the rifle on him at a profit would you?
To others, I think it's like trying to tell them that everything they believed in, is now false, changing history if you will, so denial is how they cope with it.
I have joined with some others, with a determined mission to set the record straight...one Winchester at a time if we have to.
If you have one I haven't dated for you yet, feel free to ask and help correct history!
Post it here!
The dates in the Blue Book, and any you find online, are based on the Madis data, and are severely flawed. Your "Antique" may be a C&R, or visa versa!
Post the model and serial number, use X's if you're worried about that stuff, but give me at least the first 3 digits, and I'll give you the DOM, and production numbers if I have them. A few models were not serial numbered, and a few there are no serial number records, but both have production numbers and the years produced.
Models list:
Henry Rifle, 1886, 1873, 1876, Hotchkiss Rifle, 1885, 1886, 1887, 1890, 1892, 1893, 1894, 1895, 1897, 1900, 1901, 1902, 99 Thumb Trigger, 1903, 1904, 1905, 1906, 1907, 1910, 1911, 12, 20, 21, 24, 25, 36, 37, 40, 41, 42, 43, 47, 50, 52, 53, 54, 55 Lever, 55 .22, 56, 58, 59 .22, 59 shotgun, 60, 60A, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 67, 677, 68, 69, 697. 70, 71, 72, 74, 75, 77, 88, 100, 190, 250, 270, 290
Reposting this to this thread so it doesn't get lost:
I've been asked more than once, why almost all the sources for Winchester manufacture dates, for all the various models of Winchesters, is flawed. This is the answer in short, with the reason for the importance of correcting it.
A man named George Madis compiled the Winchester DOM's after he salvaged the Winchester records from a dumpster. He gets major kudos for that!
Unfortunately, many of the records were destroyed or missing, so he simply made up the rest.
The Winchester collector world accepted his word on all things Winchester as gospel. Until recently!
My friend Bert Hartman among others started digging around in the Cody Museum basement, and discovered boxes full of microfilm containing all the Polishing Room Records. Some unknown hero had the forethought to record the records on microfilm.
Bert and others painstakingly transferred all the microfilm to jpeg. files.
The Polishing room is when and where each receiver got it's serial number. That is the actual "Date of Manufacture".
Depending on production demands, some serialed receivers made late in the year, "may have been" assembled and sold early in the next year.
Since the Madis information was never questioned, until now, it was taken as gospel and reprinted almost everywhere you seek the info.
The Blue Book of Gun Values has now been the first source to the public, to print the revised DOM's..... but the resistance to acknowledge this info is still strong.........it's still printed alongside the old Madis info.
Why the resistance to acceptance of the accurate information?
Serious Winchester collectors have a substantial investment wrapped up in their collections. When your valuable "Antique", suddenly becomes a less valuable "C&R", or your low number production year suddenly falls into a year that set a production record, you wouldn't want the unknowing sucker to see that, before you unloaded the rifle on him at a profit would you?
To others, I think it's like trying to tell them that everything they believed in, is now false, changing history if you will, so denial is how they cope with it.
I have joined with some others, with a determined mission to set the record straight...one Winchester at a time if we have to.
If you have one I haven't dated for you yet, feel free to ask and help correct history!
Post it here!
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