Is a C&R license worth it in Cali?

[Prc329]

If this was in California, then the FFL just made a big no-no...

What were they supposed to do. In the "manual" at Big 5 under exemptions it said all they need is a copy of your C&R and run the DROS. This came from corp (called afterwards to make sure everything was on the up and up). This is in CA, Anaheim to be exact.

[mow]

With a C&R but without a COE they should have DROS'd and had you and/or your friend come back after 10 24-hour periods had lapsed.

With the COE you are able to walk with C&R rifles after payment of said rifle and DROS.

[SemiAutoSam]

I agree with what your saying here 100% I would not get another license since having a 01 FFL and the 03 SOT and its expiring I would not get another license again no matter how many fun full auto toys I was able to play with. I like my privacy also and having a license is not something that is along the lines of keeping your privacy. what it is is living your life under more federal scrutiny.

It may only cost $30, but you give up your privacy on C&R purchases by being forced to keep records. The government can also "inspect" your collection up to once a year. I was very close to getting one, but decided that it wasn't worth it to me. There is nothing wrong with getting one, just make sure that you know everything before you make a decision.

[Bonecrusher]

Well, I sent for the package yesterday. I also thought about the privacy factor. But hell, living in California restricts us of having any of the "fun stuff" anyway. So there's nothing to worry about. My gun safe's boring as hell. Now if I can get the lil' lady to move across state lines, I can start collecting some some of the good shiat!

Another scenario, say Im at a local gun show and run into a c&r long from either a dealer or another customer. Would I be able to supply a copy of my c&r and do a cash & carry, or would it need to go through an ffl since were both Cali residents?

[Mssr. Eleganté]

Another scenario, say Im at a local gun show and run into a c&r long from either a dealer or another customer. Would I be able to supply a copy of my c&r and do a cash & carry, or would it need to go through an ffl since were both Cali residents?

If it's from an unlicensed gunshow patron then you can cash and carry if the long gun is at least 50 years old. (unlicensed Californians can do this too.) You don't need to give them a copy of your FFL, but you do need to get their name and address for your bound book. So you are actually at kind of a disadvantage in this instance compared to unlicensed Californians, since a lot of sellers won't want to give out their personal info to you.

If it is from a Licensed Dealer at the show then it would be just like buying from them at their shop. You can only cash and carry if you have both a C&R FFL and a COE, and you still have to fill out all of the paperwork and pay for the DROS.

[Bonecrusher]

Cool. Last question

Im not too familiar with the dealers at gun shows. Are there dealers set up from out of state? If so, would that be a cash & carry situation?

[8200rpm]

Cool. Last question

Im not too familiar with the dealers at gun shows. Are there dealers set up from out of state? If so, would that be a cash & carry situation?

NO. "Dealers" ARE Type 01 FFLs regardless of state. You MUST DROS and wait 10 days even for a 50+ year old rifle IF you do the transaction in CA with a "dealer" (01 FFL). You cannot cash and carry with a "dealer" if you are standing in CA.

Dealers (01 FFL), whether at CA gun shops or CA gun shows, are basically worthless to licensed collectors (03 FFL).

Out of state C&R vendors are your friend; you'll soon get very excited every time you see a brown truck.

[Bonecrusher]

Thank you. I'll have to read up on the benefits of the additional COE, as im a very impatient person, and when I purchase a gun the waiting part kills me!

[MinorDMaverick]

If the government doesn't think that you're important, then why make you keep records? Why, when you renew the license, do they ask "how many guns have you sold this year?" Why do they make you send a letter to your Law Enforcement Chief stating that you have a C&R?

Some people like to think that our world is filled with rainbows and cinnamon buns. The sky is not falling, but you need to look up every now and then to make sure something isn't headed towards you.

Ancient Chinese proverb: The fish sees the bait, but not the hook.

Sheesh. What color is the sky that's falling in your world? Note: You are not that important. The 'gummint' isn't watching you.

Back to reality...

...what I'm finding out is that many 'out-of-state' vendors interpret California law differently. All things considered, a C&R + CoE is a pretty good thing. However, sometimes you may have to educate suppliers as to what the law really says. I'm going through this process right now with AIM about an Ishapore I want to buy.

[chiefcrash]

If the government doesn't think that you're important, then why make you keep records? Why, when you renew the license, do they ask "how many guns have you sold this year?" Why do they make you send a letter to your Law Enforcement Chief stating that you have a C&R?

Some people like to think that our world is filled with rainbows and cinnamon buns. The sky is not falling, but you need to look up every now and then to make sure something isn't headed towards you.

Ancient Chinese proverb: The fish sees the bait, but not the hook.

Yes, you are required to keep records. But unless they come and inspect you, the government never sees those records. And they rarely inspect the C&R guys. And if they do inspect, you don't have to show them your non-C&R stuff. So all the ATF is going to inspect is a bunch of WWII bolt guns and such... When you're license expires, you can simply just throw your bound book away...

They ask you how many guns you've sold simply as a quick/easy way of determining if you're running a business. If you only sell 3 rifles in 3 years, you're probably not running a business. 300 rifles in 3 years? Now that smells fishy...

They make you send a copy of your C&R application to your local CLEO just incase he knows a reason you shouldn't have a license. The federal background check isn't always as complete as a state-level one. The CLEO has NO AUTHORITY to inspect you, approve/deny you, or anything. ATF just wants him to know you're applying incase he knows that you went to a mental hospital that didn't show up on the background check...

Believe me, I looked up, and i made quite sure nothing is headed towards me...

[MinorDMaverick]

I'm not saying that getting a C&R is a bad idea. I'm just saying that somebody should make sure they know what getting one entails.

When they inspect an 01 FFL, they will see your name in their book. It is quite traceable. C&R people are not "under the radar."

[Phil Bole]

The government can also "inspect" your collection up to once a year.

Do they need an appt.???
They can come busting down your door at any time????

[tango-52]

They have to schedule it at your convenience, and with your preference you can take your book to their office. There is no obligation to let them in the front door. Put the tinfoil hats away.

[AJAX22]

I like mine, but it has a disturbing tendancy to depleate my pocketbook. (the worst is the package deals you find from guys clearing out their inventory, normally DROS and dealer fees would be enough to deter you from buying the stuff. but with a C&R you just go ahead and do it.

[chiefcrash]

Do they need an appt.???
They can come busting down your door at any time????

To ensure compliance with record keeping requirements, an ATF officer may inspect the inventory and records of a licensed collector once during any 12-month period. At the election of the collector, the inspection may be performed at the ATF office nearest the place where the inventory and records of the collector are maintained.