Reproduction BAR

[Mikeinblack]

I don't have any Dummy Guns.

So you must have a Full Auto Class III version (In which case, you have full reason to complain about the illegitimacy and Fad/Poser Aspects of our 1918A3's!), or have no representation of this Rifle at all in your collection...

[oddjob]

I have one too and its sweet! Runs like a champ! I have a WW2 collection of arms used by the U.S. as well.

[Milsurp Collector]

So you must have a Full Auto Class III version (In which case, you have full reason to complain about the illegitimacy and Fad/Poser Aspects of our 1918A3's!), or have no representation of this Rifle at all in your collection...

Representation is a good choice of words. One of the definitions of representation is "An image or likeness of something", which is different from the real thing. Yes, I have no representation of a BAR in my collection. So what? There are hundreds of fascinating (and genuine) firearms out there, I don't own all of them, and probably neither do you. So what? But if I'm going to spend $3800 on a firearm, I want something real, not just a representation. But that's just me. If someone wants to spend that much money on a representation, that's fine, to each his own. If they love it, great, fantastic! But why do I have to like it too?

[thefifthspeed]

Representation is a good choice of words. One of the definitions of representation is "An image or likeness of something", which is different from the real thing. Yes, I have no representation of a BAR in my collection. So what? There are hundreds of fascinating (and genuine) firearms out there, I don't own all of them, and probably neither do you. So what? But if I'm going to spend $3800 on a firearm, I want something real, not just a representation. But that's just me. If someone wants to spend that much money on a representation, that's fine, to each his own. If they love it, great, fantastic! But why do I have to like it too?

[Mikeinblack]

Representation is a good choice of words. One of the definitions of representation is "An image or likeness of something", which is different from the real thing. Yes, I have no representation of a BAR in my collection. So what? There are hundreds of fascinating (and genuine) firearms out there, I don't own all of them, and probably neither do you. So what? But if I'm going to spend $3800 on a firearm, I want something real, not just a representation. But that's just me. If someone wants to spend that much money on a representation, that's fine, to each his own. If they love it, great, fantastic! But why do I have to like it too?

You don't, but so what if others do? It's obvious that we who have them really enjoy them. I guess I just have some particular opinions about people who make it a point to crap on others' equipment or interests...

If your point is that it is too expensive, I can understand that... Saying it's crap because it can't shoot full auto doesn't sit well with me... You do know that the BAR was select fire right= SEMI AUTO if in that position.

And Sorry, but I would like to have one of each WWII Service Weapon eventually.

[Milsurp Collector]

Clearly, the Garand. The US military never used a firearm whose receiver was marked OOW, or whatever they are marked. They never used a semiauto-only BAR (an oxymoron in my opinion), because what advantage would a semi-auto "BAR" have over a Garand? The job of the BAR man was to provide full-auto suppressive fire. The military even dropped the semi-auto mode with the M1918A2. They were full-auto only, because, again, what use is a Browning Automatic Rifle if you aren't using it to provide fully automatic fire? Might as well use a Garand.

I overlooked this earlier comment and I'd like to respond

Me too, regardless of how much crap he talks on them...

I love it when people have a passionate dislike for something they haven't even shot... In this case due to the price of entry, maybe out of Jealousy?

Sorry, you can only be jealous of someone if they have something you want.

If I found $3800 on the street, I wouldn't buy that particular rifle. If someone gave me one of those repros, for free, I would sell it and get something that I really want. Jealous? Um....no.

You don't, but so what if others do?

I already answered that.

If someone wants to spend that much money on a representation, that's fine, to each his own. If they love it, great, fantastic!

How many times do I have to keep saying that over and over?

It's obvious that we who have them really enjoy them. I guess I just have some particular opinions about people who make it a point to crap on others' equipment or interests...

You're taking this way too personally, I never said they were "crap". But they are as much a BAR as an AR-15 is a M16. If someone came up to you with an AR-15 and said "Look at my M16, isn't it cool?", wouldn't you think they didn't really understand that they don't have an M16?

If your point is that it is too expensive, I can understand that... Saying it's crap because it can't shoot full auto doesn't sit well with me... You do know that the BAR was select fire right= SEMI AUTO if in that position.

It isn't just that it's expensive, it's expensive for what it is. A real K98k sniper rifle is expensive too, but in my opinion it's worth it. Others don't think so, and that's fine. They are entitled to their opinion and so am I.

Again, I never said they were "crap", I just pointed the fact that they can't fire full-auto. And as I pointed out above, semi-auto mode was dropped on the M1918A2 because the military realized that semi-auto mode on a BAR was, um, not so useful.

Now, let me state that I don't dislike all reproductions. I think they are OK as long as they look like the originals, provide the same shooting experience as the originals, and are reasonably priced for what they are.

So let's look at say those reproduction Mosin sniper rifles that sell for $400.

Looks the same? Check.
Provides the same shooting experience as the original? Check.
Reasonably priced for what it is? Hmm, not bad, I'd rather get a real sniper for $800, but $400 isn't bad. It's still $3400 cheaper than one of those Browning Semiautomaic Rifles.

How about those repro PPSh-41s or semiauto Thompson repros




Looks the same? With those long barrels? You be the judge.
Provides the same shooting experience as the original? Like the BAR, the whole point of a submachine gun is full-auto firepower, usually using a large magazine. Semi-auto with a 10-round magazine? Not even close. I've fired a fully-automatic firearm (a MP 40) and it is quite different from semiauto.
Reasonably priced for what it is? At over $1000 for either, too expensive, in my opinion. Still, over $2000 cheaper than the repro Browning * Rifle.

The Ohio Ordnance Work repro?
Looks the same? Yes!
Same shooting experience as the original? See above comments about submachine guns.
Reasonably priced for what it is? ...

But again, just my opinion. It's your money to spend as you wish. If you really love it, it shouldn't matter what I or anyone else thinks, unless one of the reasons that someone gets one of those repros is to try to impress others and try to make them feel "jealous" and envious, and after spending all that money it isn't working. Sorry.

[thefifthspeed]

Milsurp-
So at what price would you say the semi BAR is "reasonable"? And (hypothetically) would you ever get to a point where you have
too many authentic C&R guns where you would start buying reproductions?

[Milsurp Collector]

Milsurp-
So at what price would you say the semi BAR is "reasonable"? And (hypothetically) would you ever get to a point where you have
too many authentic C&R guns where you would start buying reproductions?

Maybe around the price of a M1A. The OOW rifle and a M1A are similar in many ways functionally in my opinion, the main difference being the round they fire (.30-06 vs. .308). Both have commercial receivers and USGI parts, semiauto only, 20-round box magazine. The M1A is obviously lighter and easier to handle, possibly more accurate, and very close in power. MSRP for a basic Springfield Armory Inc. M1A is $1,739, half the cost of the OOW rifle.

By the way, this is an interesting World War II training film that has a section about the BAR, starting at 9:03 through 10:09. It shows the role of the BAR man providing the automatic suppressive fire part of "fire and maneuver" Infantry Weapons and Their Effects.

Hypothetically, for me personally I would consider getting a reproduction if it was something that I just had to have, I couldn't afford an original, and the reproduction met my three criteria of being visually the same as an original, had the same shooting experience as the original, and the price was reasonable. I can't think of anything offhand right now that meets all those criteria. My main problem is not getting my wife more upset that I'm buying yet another "old gun".

I guess the main thing is I can't ever see myself having "too many authentic C&R guns". There are just so many out there. Even if you specialize, it is hard to run out of things to buy. Guys specialize in 1911s, Lugers, P38s, K98k's, Arisakas, Enfields, etc. and once you get into all the subtypes and variations it's easier to run out of money and space before you run out of interesting genuine firearms to buy.

[oddjob]

The word expensive is relative to the individual. Its like the term "rich." I have a friend who spent $85,000.00 on a double rifle (Rigby & Rigby) 500 nitro express. He didn't even blink when he wrote the check.

[Milsurp Collector]

The word expensive is relative to the individual. Its like the term "rich." I have a friend who spent $85,000.00 on a double rifle (Rigby & Rigby) 500 nitro express. He didn't even blink when he wrote the check.

You're right. If OOW is selling all the 1918A3 SLRs -- I just found out OOW calls them SLRs for Self Loading Rifle, even they don't call them BARs --they can make at $3800 (+ $150 for the California package, so now we're talking almost $4000 with shipping), then clearly there are people who think they are worth it and are not "too expensive". That's fine, it's their money. All I was saying was, in my opinion it isn't good value for my money for the reasons listed earlier, but if others want to buy them, that's fine. But they aren't "BAR"s, any more than an AR-15 is a M16. But that doesn't mean an AR-15 is "crap" just because it isn't a M16, or a SLR is "crap" because it isn't a BAR. But it is what it is.

[Astig Boy]

Representation is a good choice of words. One of the definitions of representation is "An image or likeness of something", which is different from the real thing. Yes, I have no representation of a BAR in my collection. So what? There are hundreds of fascinating (and genuine) firearms out there, I don't own all of them, and probably neither do you. So what? But if I'm going to spend $3800 on a firearm, I want something real, not just a representation. But that's just me. If someone wants to spend that much money on a representation, that's fine, to each his own. If they love it, great, fantastic! But why do I have to like it too?

Heres the big difference between you and them. You say, "If someone wants to spend that much money on a representation..." To them, it is not "that much" money. Your view of expensive may not be expensive to them. $10k might be much to you, but there are certain people in here where $10k is made in a month. Nobody is asking you to like it..why are you in here raining on others parades? I understand you are backing up your stance, but you are trampling on their preference and their choice of purchase. I dont own a semiauto BAR and I dont care to own one, but from your posts it is obvious you have an issue with it. This isn't the place to hear your "issues" or personal negative opinions about one. Nobodys asking you to like anything in here.

[D Day Dog]

Milsurp is entitled to his opinion. That's what forums are for. Baseless opinions, however, aren't very usefull. If Milsurp said: "It's a POS" without having ever held one or (especially) shot one, then I'd consider him clueless and his opinions would have no merit to me. Here, he's posted some valid points, but is being smacked cause the rifle's not his flavor for the price - which isn't worth it to him. If he was, lets say, an original BAR FA owner and just said: "they're crap", I'd stick my boot up his a** too.

You know something. I went thru this same issue when I bought my PTR44. "Its not an MP44, its a fake." "It's too much money". blah blah blah... The PTR44 was made based upon the original MP44 design, but it's called the PTR44 - and it's neutered. The semi BAR looks just like an original one - but it's neutered too. That's really the main difference isn't it - SA. Make them yourself and set the price. They want $3800 for 'em, eh? Well, I paid $4300 for my PTR44 because I don't have $15000 for an original MP44. I also don't have $19000 for an original BAR, but I might pay $3800 for a semi. If they're the only game in town, then that's where I'd have to spend my coin to get one. Where else are we gonna find brand new semi MP44s or BARs for less? Post the links if you know where, cause I would like to know about 'em.

In the end, it is what it is and it's worth what it's worth to those who want AND sell them. Welcome to capitalism friends. TAKE A BITE...

My .02 cents for the day...

D Day