Why not CMP?

[IronsightsRifleman]

OK, this has been eating at me for a while, so I have to ask...
Every time I see someone selling recently-purchased run-of-the-mill M1 Garands from CMP at twice the CMP price i go through the roof. I know it's a lot of paperwork to comply with the CMP purchasing rules, but I really feel that these sellers are scum abusing the system. Don't get me wrong - if you got something you really weren't expecting, or you're selling an item you've had for a while, or you actually took a trip to Taledega to pick out a special item to sell based on your knowledge and skill, I'm fine with that. But placing a routine order from CMP just to turn them around immediately at a huge profit really erks me.
Am i missing something? I'd like to think these sellers aren't scumsuckers. Maybe they're excellent human beings providing a much needed sevice? Please clue me in.
Also: why would anyone buy at these ridiculous prices when they could just go through the CMP process and get a Garand at half the price?
I'm hoping you'll enlighten me.

[olhunter]

..why would anyone buy at these ridiculous prices when they could just go through the CMP process and get a Garand at half the price?
I'm hoping you'll enlighten me.

Well, because the CMP 'process' is not exactly that easy. And they don't direct ship anymore.

If you can meet the CMP requirements, then of course you would buy it from them for a decent price.

If not.....then you get to pay the premium.

[Wheellock]

If there is money to be made, someone will be there to work the system.

The CMP sells at below market value. The paperwork isn't very hard to do. Probably the same people who stand in line at the gun store the day the ammo truck will arrive then sell it on GB.

There are probably also collectors who buy extra to get the more rare parts. I have seen some lately with slant op rods, uncut op rods, WRA bolts, and on and on. If you could swap the rare parts off a rifle and sell it for a profit, it makes it difficult to resist for some.

That said, I would be happy to purchase a Mossberg M44 for twice what the CMP sold them for...I gave mine to my brother for his birthday.

[brianm767]

I've sold a few of the guns that I've purchased from the CMP, and man I wish I could get twice the price, but that's never been the case nor have i ever tired, but it is capitalism, if someone wants to pay it rather than go through a few very easy steps, then that's their choice. But I agree, that's not what the CMP is for.
And Garands are underpriced through the CMP, a standard service grade on the secondary market are normally $1000 to $1200, and if you don't have a COE and C&R in CA, that's only a $100 to $300ish markup. I don't think that's unreasonable.
The last service grades I bought in the south store cost me $750 plus 10% Alabama sales tax so that's $825, then my ffl charged $45 "per rifle" plus the DROS fee so that's a little over $870 per rifle, I think I sold two or maybe three out of the eight for $900 each, which was a loss for me. Twice the price would of been $1740 , are people selling them for that much? If so let me know, ill be ordering 8 field grades soon. Just kidding, I'm not into flipping them, just collecting, correcting and I sell off one or two here and there if there not what I want. As mentioned on my previous purchase in person, I did hand pick out 6 SG's in the south store a couple years ago with the help of Tom PH68, I was mostly looking for stocks with the proper cartouches for the rifles or ones in my collection with another two picked out in the north store , I drove from Ohio to Alabama twice in two weeks while on vacation to Ohio, I paid for fuel, food and two nights in the hotel. I corrected the rifles as much as I could along with the rifles I already had in my collection. Scored several very sought after cartouche stocks that I needed . I chose the keepers and sold off s few for $900, so I actually lost $ on them, but ended up with many of the parts I needed for my collection.

I plan on ordering 8 FG's as soon as my renewed C&R and COE arrive, that will save me on FFL fees, and same plan, Ill keep the ones I want, probably pass one or two to my kids, and maybe sell any that don't catch my eye as keepers.

But I too am surprised how many people want a Garand, but say its too much of a hassle to by through the CMP, its so easy and inexpensive. And your following orders after your first are even easier since they now have your docs saved and notary saved .

[IronsightsRifleman]

And they don't direct ship anymore.

Is that right? Can you elaborate on that?

[chrisw]

Well, because the CMP 'process' is not exactly that easy. And they don't direct ship anymore.

If you can meet the CMP requirements, then of course you would buy it from them for a decent price.

If not.....then you get to pay the premium.

B.S. What is so hard about filling out a few pieces of paper and mailing them in? I found it quite easy. And they direct ship to 03ffl with coe.


And O.P. I was thinking the exact same thing after browsing the marketplace tonight.

[brianm767]

Is that right? Can you elaborate on that?

In Ca you have to now have a C&R license as well as a C.O.E. to have them direct ship to you, if you dont have both, they have to go through an FFL.

[IronsightsRifleman]

In Ca you have to now have a C&R license as well as a C.O.E. to have them direct ship to you, if you dont have both, they have to go through an FFL.

OK, understood, thanks.
That's what I had in mind when I referred to their purchase /paperwork process. It does take some time and expense.

[brianm767]

I'm curious op, knowing that for most people the CMP guns have to now go through a FFL, and you have to pay sales tax what would be a fair resale price for a field grade and service grade rifle?

If I was to order a Field Grade right now , my OTD cost would be $788.25, and I think order to deliver time for FG's is about 3-5 weeks.

A service grade would cost me $855.75 and order time is about 4 months plus right now.

I haven't looked in the classifieds here lately so I don't now what people are asking currently.

And I've never actually ordered from the CMP, I've only hand picked rifles in both stores and I just picked out a 1903A3 and a 1917 at the Talladega marksmanship park two weeks ago, and yes those still had to be shipped to my FFL for the transfer.

[Verdha603]

Honestly I think its because they can take advantage of people who don't know any better.

A surprisingly large number of people simply don't know about the CMP. For the newer gun owner looking to get an M1 Garand but hasn't dug too in depth on it, its quite likely they'll pay whatever the seller tells them is the "fair price" simply because its right there in front of them after they've searched for one for awhile. Heck, I even know a surprising number of folks interested in milsurp firearms that don't know about the CMP, either because they're not M1 Garand enthusiasts/aficionado's, they managed to get a Garand from a family member and are now looking for another one for whatever reason.

Also, while I won't automatically say they're selling them for twice the price, they do tend to have a significant price markup. I snagged my Service Grade M1 Garand for about 870 after all was said and done. Last gun show I went to not even three months after I got that rifle (I wanna say it was Fall of 2018?) I found folks selling CMP rifles for at least 50% markup. A Service Grade rifle getting sold at the gun show went for 1200-1400 bucks, with the price jump being for if you wanted the one Winchester rifle snuggled between the Springfield rifles. Special Grade rifles ran from 1500-1900 bucks for a similar reason, with Springfield at the bottom, Winchester at the top dollar mark, and IHC/H&R sitting in between.

So not quite double, but a 50-75% markup made me walk away before I could open my mouth and say something to the seller that might've gotten me thrown out of that show. In hindsight I'm glad I at least helped one potential buyer avoid getting ripped off and directed him to spend his money on a rifle by directly ordering from the CMP instead.

[IronsightsRifleman]

I'm curious op, knowing that for most people the CMP guns have to now go through a FFL, and you have to pay sales tax what would be a fair resale price for a field grade and service grade rifle?

I haven't looked in the classifieds here lately so I don't now what people are asking currently

Here is my opinion.

The process of buying and selling without adding value is the broad definition of arbitrage. It takes many forms, this is just one example. It is typically characterized by a short term exchange between markets. I am generally opposed to it on principle because it seeks to exploits an unfair advantage against other people.
With that said, I'd say a fair price is no more than the CMP price plus tax, assuming you got a run-of-the-mill rifle. Now, if you paid, $650 for a field grade Garand and they shipped you a rare gas trap, well that's winning the lottery and you can charge what you like. But that scenario rarely happens and it's not the basis of my inquiry.

The CMP process requires that you get your FFL03, and your COE, and join an affiliated club. Many (myself included), have taken that route. It's a hassle (the COE Live Scan is, at least) but it's not really difficult. If you go through an FFL01 you are violating the CMP's officiall rules of sale.

If you follow the rules, you are a Collector. You are bound to not engage in a firearms business. You can buy and sell, even at a large profit (in my non-legal opinion). But you can't engage in business and, again in my opinion, arbitrage is way-way-way out of bounds.

[hermosabeach]

My CMP took 2 1/2 years from match until I received it

Back then -
Needed to join NRA
Needed to join a state group like CRPA
Needed to find a Club hosting a match

I was lucky in that the club actually taught a class on the M1 Garand.



Back then, CMP ran out of rifles for a year and you were in queue.

[SkyHawk]

Ordering from the CMP is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get. You pay, and then something shows up.

With a private seller you know exactly what you're getting in advance. That is worth something.

Many of the sellers have also transferred them in via a CA FFL, paid sales tax, DROS, transfer fee etc plus all the other hoops like affiliated club membership, NRA, a notary. That can add up pretty dang quick.

Try getting one yourself from CMP, then get back to us at the conclusion. Then I'll offer you $650 for it

[IronsightsRifleman]

If so let me know, ill be ordering 8 field grades soon.

Sorry to break the news to you but, because of the rampant abuse and high demand, the new limit from CMP is 2 per year.

Edit: My post above is incorrect. There had been a temporary limit of 2 earlier this year. The annual limit is still 8.

[IronsightsRifleman]

Ordering from the CMP is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get. You pay, and then something shows up.

With a private seller you know exactly what you're getting in advance. That is worth something.

True. And I have bought specific M1s through private party sales and have gladly paid a premium to a knowledgeable seller who hand-picked guns at Taledega. But the situation I'm taking about here is run-of-the-mill Garands at high markup.