Hypothetically Speaking--Using C & R when SHTF

[oc16]

I will take a page from Canada and run around w ith my Chinese sks. For something with a little more power my 1903, or k98 would do the job

[echo1]

I hate these types of questions. They're always so vague, and the reality of any given apoctolyptic event, is the luck of the draw. Most city folk will be dispatched, in short order. PAX

[flatbedtruckin]

Swiss k31 would be my go to rifle.. with several cases of gp11 or a svt40..

[rdfact]

From my military C&Rs, for ease of carrying I would go with an SKS or M1 Carbine. The M1 would be preferred for the detachable mag but the SKS may be easier to find ammo for.

For non-military C&Rs, perhaps a Marlin 1894 lever gun in .357 paired with a Ruger Blackhawk. I could also shoot .38 special.


ETA: Dang it, the Marlin is not C&R yet. So M1 carbine it is.

[TrappedinCalifornia]

Assuming all modern firearms (AR, AK, semi-auto handguns, etc) are no longer legal to possess (curse the progressive Dems if this really does happen), which one of your C & R firearms would you rely on when SHTF? Pick one for home defense and one for survival (hunting, long range engagement, etc). Discuss.


Home defense--M1 Carbine. Luckily all my mags work well

Survival--Madsen M47. 30.06 is a great all-purpose round that should be plentiful/easy to barter if you ever run low.

Not to be a Debbie Downer or wet rag, but... If the SHTF to where we're down to 'bartering' and/or 'foraging' for ammunition, food, etc., then 'legality' is going to be largely irrelevant in that Government is unlikely to exist in a form which would allow enforcement of such laws.

If by SHTF you mean that we end up with a far Left-Wing Government and all 'modern' firearms (presumably meaning "semi-automatics") are no longer legal, what makes you think that C&R "semi-automatics" would be exempted? Such would be particularly true with regard to ANY magazine accepting semi-automatic; meaning an M1 Carbine is unlikely to remain 'legal' as well. In fact, if things were to get THAT far, it's likely that, at best, a single shot rifle in .22 LR and/or a single shot shotgun in .410 would be the MOST you'd legally be allowed.

What does that leave us with? Well, if you don't have firearms 'stashed/cached' and aren't too afraid to use (risk losing) them in procuring food or defending yourself lest the authorities come for you, then a mindset similar to what spawned...



In which case, you take what you can get and, as with any 'survival' scenario, you always look to 'better' your situation.

[risingsun212]

Is it really a discussion if it makes no sense at all. SHTF means instant compliance with unconstitutional laws? I must have read the wrong memo. SHTF means BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

No, they will take away your guns one step at a time, starting with modern guns. A few years later, they will take away more. Just look at the gun control law in Australia that started with gun buyback in 1996. How many modern semi auto rifles are still in civilian hands now? S* can hit the fan anytime!

[familyfarm]

I appreciate the question as it made me think. Its a game about your collection of guns or about C&R, not a legal question. Its for fun. Just go with it and stop debating the OP.

I will rephrase it: "Just for fun, pretend you only had your C&R guns or could acquire some. What would you run with in SHTF"

Its a fun exercise because I own lots of stuff and my first instincts were wrong. I thought Garand and Carbine first. But after reflection, the Garands are getting heavy for long range mobility at my age, so I should might live longer if I took one of my Carbines and the 2-3" snubbie C&R revolver that PitFighter sold me on!

Thanks OP for the 5 minute diversion from the current reality.

[Mauserguy]

"I'm guessing at a minimun there will be martial law, curfew, stay at home orders, extreme surveillance, concentration camps, checkpoints, no water, no power, no food, chaos, looting, fires, etc..."

What you describe above is the current state of affairs here on the left coast.
Mayserguy


__________________

[The Gleam]

The purpose of this discussion is not to debate what’s modern and what’s C&R eligible. There are plenty of posts on Calgun for that discussion. I have an 03 FFL and I know what Is C&R eligible in California. The discussion is about what you would use if all modern, non-C&R firearms like your AR are removed from the equation.

Primarily I agree with everyone that has said that should SHTF land, nothing would be off limits, because law and order are out the window, and the least concern will be 'which' firearm is implemented - legal or not.

Yet, to ponder the hypothetical is to pre-visualize and prepare for the worst in order to be your best, so to contemplate "removal" of the AR is to machinate just why that would happen or arise in the first place, and what agenda is causing that to happen, and thus they would abscond so many else of what you are deeming "not modern" from your relative perspective - maybe age, or limited experience of firearms.

This defines your choices, so it is important to box modern vs. 'old'.

For that matter, why would the AR15 be negated? It first sold to the public in 1959, so it is conceivable that there are now many potential ARs sold from 1959 to 1970 still in private hands that meet the C&R designation.

You chose a M1 Carbine, which to me is as modern a firearm as the AR15; and even though it too is C&R eligible, it certainly would be targeted as a "banned" firearm in conjunction with AR15s and AK47s as you noted if they go full blown against "modern" firearms, and particularly semi-auto.

The Anti-2nd Amendment crowd see the M1 Carbine as a "military style" rifle, particularly because of its history and it's semi-auto capability, regardless of whether it sports a pistol grip or not.

This so much, that it has previously appeared on their ban wish lists when seeking to go after ARs and AKs, along with the Ruger Mini-14 and M1As, among others.

Add to that the M1 Garand, SVT-40s, FN49s, Hakims, SKSs, AG42/Ljungmans, Rasheeds, G43/K43s, and so on, where 'modern' is akin to anything semi-auto with military heritage.

So what does that leave us? Bolt actions, Lever actions, Rolling/Falling blocks, Trapdoors, other single-shots, and the like, and then of course cap-and-ball, matchlock, flintlock, etc.

So on two points, it does matter, and the perception of WHAT is 'modern' is relative, no different than how one may see a modern car as anything made post 1928 (i.e., the Model A is often called the first "modern" car) while others see anything post-WWII as "modern" vehicles, still others anything post 1957, and then later, most think anything post 1973 as the qualifier as to what is "modern" due to smog-laws being implemented. As of late, I've even heard others calling the definition of modern cars anything with computers and On-board diagnostics (OBD) post early 1980s.

So to pitch the query, like any hypothetical, it does require established rules, as one man's modern, is a another man's antique.

[Cowboy T]

Is it really a discussion if it makes no sense at all. SHTF means instant compliance with unconstitutional laws? I must have read the wrong memo. SHTF means BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

Now read the text of the OP's post. He's really talking about modern semi-automatics becoming illegal.

[risingsun212]

My original question asks, "Which one of your C & R firearms would you rely on when SHTF?" Or let me ask a different way: Look into your gun safe and tell me which one of your C & R guns is best suited for home defense or hunting when SHTF?
There are less than 15,000 AR-15 sold to the civilian market before 1970. How many of those do you think are C & R eligible in California? None, zip, nada. I'm not going to turn this into a legal discussion because there are too many on this forum (and it wouldn't be very fun). I can buy an M-1 Carbine cash-and-carry in CA with my 03 FFL and COE. I cannot with a pre-1970 AR even if I do come across one and have the money for. That's the difference. I suppose that we can fancy a more realistic scenario where they do confiscate all semi-autos including C & R ones (or an even more realistic scenario where all we are left with are rocks and sticks), but that would be almost as stimulating as laying bricks.

Primarily I agree with everyone that has said that should SHTF land, nothing would be off limits, because law and order are out the window, and the least concern will be 'which' firearm is implemented - legal or not.

Yet, to ponder the hypothetical is to pre-visualize and prepare for the worst in order to be your best, so to contemplate "removal" of the AR is to machinate just why that would happen or arise in the first place, and what agenda is causing that to happen, and thus they would abscond so many else of what you are deeming "not modern" from your relative perspective - maybe age, or limited experience of firearms.

This defines your choices, so it is important to box modern vs. 'old'.

For that matter, why would the AR15 be negated? It first sold to the public in 1959, so it is conceivable that there are now many potential ARs sold from 1959 to 1970 still in private hands that meet the C&R designation.

You chose a M1 Carbine, which to me is as modern a firearm as the AR15; and even though it too is C&R eligible, it certainly would be targeted as a "banned" firearm in conjunction with AR15s and AK47s as you noted if they go full blown against "modern" firearms, and particularly semi-auto.

The Anti-2nd Amendment crowd see the M1 Carbine as a "military style" rifle, particularly because of its history and it's semi-auto capability, regardless of whether it sports a pistol grip or not.

This so much, that it has previously appeared on their ban wish lists when seeking to go after ARs and AKs, along with the Ruger Mini-14 and M1As, among others.

Add to that the M1 Garand, SVT-40s, FN49s, Hakims, SKSs, AG42/Ljungmans, Rasheeds, G43/K43s, and so on, where 'modern' is akin to anything semi-auto with military heritage.

So what does that leave us? Bolt actions, Lever actions, Rolling/Falling blocks, Trapdoors, other single-shots, and the like, and then of course cap-and-ball, matchlock, flintlock, etc.

So on two points, it does matter, and the perception of WHAT is 'modern' is relative, no different than how one may see a modern car as anything made post 1928 (i.e., the Model A is often called the first "modern" car) while others see anything post-WWII as "modern" vehicles, still others anything post 1957, and then later, most think anything post 1973 as the qualifier as to what is "modern" due to smog-laws being implemented. As of late, I've even heard others calling the definition of modern cars anything with computers and On-board diagnostics (OBD) post early 1980s.

So to pitch the query, like any hypothetical, it does require established rules, as one man's modern, is a another man's antique.

[2761377]

M-snip[ I suppose that we can fancy a more realistic scenario where they do confiscate all semi-autos including C & R ones (or an even more realistic scenario where all we are left with are rocks and sticks), but that would be almost as stimulating as laying bricks.

OP, this is the best way to describe your thread.

[CalifEd]

If the SHTF happened I would go rabbit - not interested in confronting a mob, other unfriendly folks or re-establishing a society - just establishing and maintaining a working perimeter for myself.
With that said I would probably take one of my 1950s S&W revolvers in .22, probably a Model 48/51 MRF since I can use both the Mag and have auxiliary LR cylinders for both.
While they are pretty, they are pretty darned accurate, lite, tough to break and I can carry a lot of ammo.
I also have a nice 1944 S&W Victory in .38 special for the non-believers that doubt the worthiness of a .22.
I also would add a 12ga Remington 870 from the 50's. It shoots shot and slugs just fine.
Just what a rabbit needs.

[-hanko]

Not to be a Debbie Downer or wet rag, but... If the SHTF to where we're down to 'bartering' and/or 'foraging' for ammunition, food, etc., then 'legality' is going to be largely irrelevant in that Government is unlikely to exist in a form which would allow enforcement of such laws.

If by SHTF you mean that we end up with a far Left-Wing Government and all 'modern' firearms (presumably meaning "semi-automatics") are no longer legal, what makes you think that C&R "semi-automatics" would be exempted? Such would be particularly true with regard to ANY magazine accepting semi-automatic; meaning an M1 Carbine is unlikely to remain 'legal' as well. In fact, if things were to get THAT far, it's likely that, at best, a single shot rifle in .22 LR and/or a single shot shotgun in .410 would be the MOST you'd legally be allowed.

We just got a "far left-wing government".

[-hanko]

Although this is the home for California's gun owner resistance...

...the normal Calguns.net posture is compliance, compliance, and even more compliance.

What makes anyone think that posture will change.

Guaranteed you'll see the same old "but I've got a good job", "I've got a great house", "I'm too busy", etc., etc.