C&R FFL Application Form ATF 7CR - use the official BATFE PDF form!

[Iffy]

Hi folks,

I found this thread doing a search for C&R wait times.
Let me tell you my tale. First, I'm on the other coast. (PA).
I ordered the app online on 2-11.
Got impatient/worried and ordered second set 3-30.
Received Set#1, 4-27. (10 weeks)
Mailed 4-29.
Card charged 5-3.
Received Set#2, 5-22. (7 weeks)
Today is one week short of a 4 month journey and I still do not have the license.

ETA:
I just noticed this on the ATF site:
http://www.atf.gov/press/2009press/0...tion-forms.htm

Afternoon to ya from CA!! Just an FYI, you may want to go ahead and call the BATF phone number that came with your packet, or can be found online. I waited for my license for 3 months or so, finally get impatient and called. Spoke with a nice young lady on the other line who informed me that all was ok, and she was sorry it wasnt sent out. She told me that a note will be passed and I should be receiving my card by 7 days. 5 days after the call the license showed up at my door step.

G/L

[fiver]

I am actually an Ohio resident but joined here to thank Turbinator and everyone else at Calguns for the work you are doing.

<mini rant on>
If I was living in Cal I would probably just give up and turn my guns in, or move. I don't know how you guys deal with the crap you have to deal with on a daily basis. Thanks for putting up the good fight and continuing to protect your rights. I commend you for it.
</mini rant off>

Anyway, I mailed in the now "bogus" PDF form over a week ago. ATF saw fit to hit my credit card today for $30, but given the posts immediately previous to mine I fully expect the form to be rejected. Hopefully the greenies that I ordered a month ago will be here soon so I can get this straightened out.

The primary purpose for my post is to share some information. It took only a little bit of internet sleuthing to figure out that this is the contractor responsible for mailing out the forms:

http://www.socent.org/

They are an outsourcing fulfillment center. They apparently have a number of printing centers nationwide which is why when you get your greenies they could come from a variety of return addresses.

Given their large distribution network, they must be printing on commonly available paper. So whenever I get my greenies in hand assuming there are no special watermarks (which I doubt) I will post the pantone color number, hammeril order number, color to say when you walk into Kinko's, or whatever other information I have about this form, it's color, it's paper weight, and the paper supplier. With paper in your hand it is not hard to figure out what it is and where it came from and with simple phone call you could get reams of it.


If you have contacts over at Socent, or work at Socent, please post any information you have which will not result in your termination, or PM a board elder or moderator.

To be clear, after reading the ATF letter I do not support, condone, or recommend anyone sending in anything to the ATF which is not on an officially received ATF GREEN form from the contractor of their choosing. I am a law abiding citizen and so are you.

[Turbinator]

Hi Fiver, (wow, a pun!)

Nice to see you logging in from Ohio! Anyway, I don't think it's specifically "illegal" to use the non-ATF green form, but they appear to have retained the right to accept or reject whatever forms and applications they so desire. So, I don't think any of us would face criminal charges, per se, for sending in the PDF form printed out on white paper. We'll just get the dreaded rejection letter and instructions how to go get the green forms.

Socent.. yes. My envelope says SOC Enterprises, out of Hyattsville, MD. I also have another envelope from the "ATF Distribution Center" out of Springfield, VA. So, yes, they are spread around the country, I guess.

I'm not sure these guys print up the forms? I'm guessing that they simply have the forms and send them out upon request? Or are they an actual printing house as well?

Note that the C&R app is not simply printed on 8.5x11 paper - it is slightly larger, and is perforated to allow one to tear off pages from the packet. However, I don't know if the ATF would know if the forms were self printed on this green paper (once we figure out the exact color and weight) or if the forms were typed in by hand on a typewriter (which is acceptable).

By the way, there are no special watermarks on the green forms. I have a set right here (the set I scanned) and they don't have watermarks.

But do we really want to buy reams of this green paper? The intent is to bring the C&R app to every enthusiast quickly and easily, without the need to do anything special. I appreciate the detective work and the thought process, but I was really hoping that a free and widely distributed PDF form could take the place of extra work involved in ordering the forms or having to go out and get special paper.

At any rate, I welcome more inputs and ideas. Maybe we approach the BATFE as an organized group and ask what it would take to get them to allow the PDF to be used?

Turby

[Turbinator]

Afternoon to ya from CA!! Just an FYI, you may want to go ahead and call the BATF phone number that came with your packet, or can be found online. I waited for my license for 3 months or so, finally get impatient and called. Spoke with a nice young lady on the other line who informed me that all was ok, and she was sorry it wasnt sent out. She told me that a note will be passed and I should be receiving my card by 7 days. 5 days after the call the license showed up at my door step.

G/L

That's good to hear, but the only problem I see here is that you submitted your app using the "correct" green forms, right? We're trying to figure out if the ATF will accept apps that are not on their specific forms. We're trying to get around the whole "waiting for my app to show up" sort of thing. Thanks for the feedback though, this will certainly help folks who have submitted using the standard green forms.

Turby

[Iffy]

actually, i was just responding for Kadar specifically. he said he got his forms in i believe? at least thats how i take it from his post? just wanted to let him know one of the options he has if he wants to do a check up.

Edit:: yes, i did send my paper work in with the right forms, and i did it last year around June? i believe. they charge the card pretty quickly and without restraint, but then the stumble and fumble a bit sometimes. ive heard people clearing a C&R in 30 days from start to finish, and some waiting for 4+ months. whatever the case may be, make sure your bank account can handle a C&R, they arent cheap hehehehehe....

[mievil]

Sent my copies of the PDF in before a trip overseas. The charge hit my card on the 25th, so I'm not sure if I'm gonna get these returned or not. I still am looking for my green forms that I already had filled out and have since misplaced. I'd be interested to see if I might be one of the last ones to either get the license with these forms, or one of the first ones rejected. haha

[Inoxmark]

Sent PDF application on May 5, CC charged on May 10, no license and no contact from ATF so far... keeping my fingers crossed. Still sitting on my green forms I got few days after I mailed my application
Anyone other than amurphy and jchag1718 got their license?

[mievil]

Yeah, I finally found my green forms in the desk. Wondering if I should just go ahead and mail them in anyway. But also wondering if I do that if they are gonna get confused, or double charge me, or just deny it altogether. hmmmm....

[Turbinator]

There may be others not on Calguns who have sent in the form and have gotten their licenses before the ATF put a stop to this. Perhaps some of them will join Calguns and post their results.

Turby

[beetle]

I guess we'll see. I sent my PDF forms in last Monday (6/1) and the charge just hit today (6/8). will be interesting to see what happens.

Worst part about this is that the PDF form wouldn't be needed if they did a better job of just sending out the form. It's nearing 2 months since I requested and still no green form.

[Inoxmark]

Update on my application:
Received a large tyvek envelope from BATFE with a cover letter and one green application form. The letter stated that my original application will not be processed because it wasn't on the approved form. I am to complete attached green form and mail it to a particular person in a licensing center in WV. The form already had my file # filled in.

[Lowbux]

Ditto with Inoxmark

Sent the "white sheet" in and received the exact same response. They accepted payment though.....I feel so rejected.

[mievil]

Update on my application:
Received a large tyvek envelope from BATFE with a cover letter and one green application form. The letter stated that my original application will not be processed because it wasn't on the approved form. I am to complete attached green form and mail it to a particular person in a licensing center in WV. The form already had my file # filled in.

When exactly did you originally send in your forms? I just said to hell with it and mailed my green forms in on Saturday with a written letter.

[joefrank64k]

Here's another option that worked for me...

About a month ago, I ended up calling my local ATF office (in my case Glendale) and asked if they had any CR FFL apps that I could pick up in person.

The SA on the phone said that he would save me the trouble and mail one out. I said that he didn't need to bother; I could just order it through the web site, but he said it would be no problem because it usually takes a long time before you get your forms from the web (as others have found out).

I got the app in the mail in about a week. I mailed it out within a day or two and they have already charged my CC. I'll update when I get my FFL in hand.

YMMV of course...

[Sean Vax]

Here's another option that worked for me...

About a month ago, I ended up calling my local ATF office (in my case Glendale) and asked if they had any CR FFL apps that I could pick up in person.

The SA on the phone said that he would save me the trouble and mail one out. I said that he didn't need to bother; I could just order it through the web site, but he said it would be no problem because it usually takes a long time before you get your forms from the web (as others have found out).

I got the app in the mail in about a week. I mailed it out within a day or two and they have already charged my CC. I'll update when I get my FFL in hand.

YMMV of course...

I'm going to find the number for the office nearest to my location, (most likely Glendale) and see if they will do the same thing. Do you know where I can locate this information on their website?