Easy question...

[Santa Cruz Armory]

Is the Yugo SKS a C&R firearm that needs to be entered into my bound book?? I know it's not CA C&R eligible, I just need to know if I need to enter it.

Thanks!!

[Kestryll]

As I understand it if you did not buy it under your license then you don't have to enter it.
If you buy it under your 03FFL it goes in the book.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

Federal law says...

Each licensed collector shall enter into a record each receipt and disposition of firearms curios or relics.

So while you are a licensed collector you should log each receipt and disposition of a C&R firearm. The law makes no distinction of whether or not you "used" your license.

[Kestryll]

AII could well be right as well, I've heard both versions as 'definitive'.
The part that made the most sense to me was did a copy of your license go to the other person to be loggd in their book? If yes then definitely log it in yours. If no then your in the 'grey zone'. I don't think it can do any harm to log it even if it's not required.
Better to be safe than sorry.

[EOD Guy]

Is the Yugo SKS a C&R firearm that needs to be entered into my bound book?? I know it's not CA C&R eligible, I just need to know if I need to enter it.

Thanks!!

The Yugo SKS is a C&R firearm in California. California uses the same definition for C&R as the Feds and they reference 27 CFR for the definition.

AII could well be right as well, I've heard both versions as 'definitive'.
The part that made the most sense to me was did a copy of your license go to the other person to be loggd in their book? If yes then definitely log it in yours. If no then your in the 'grey zone'. I don't think it can do any harm to log it even if it's not required.
Better to be safe than sorry.

It is not a "grey zone." BATF has put out at least two letters informing C&R FFL holders that ALL C&R firearms need to be logged while the collector is licensed, regardless of how they were obtained.

Here is one of the letters.

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/011801ffl.htm

[metalhead357]

The Yugo SKS is a C&R firearm in California. California uses the same definition for C&R as the Feds and they reference 27 CFR for the definition.

How'd ya' figure that? It aint 50 years old

[stevie]

Remember you are dealing with federal law not state. So, yes, you should put the Yugo SKS in your bound book regardless of how you purchased it.

[chiefcrash]

hold on guys:

Did this Yugo SKS have it's grenade launcher removed? If so, it's been modified from it's original configuration, and is no longer a C&R firearm...

[stevie]

There are 2 types of Yugo SKS, Mod. 59 (No Launcher)and 59/66 (Launcher).

[ocabj]

Log anything that you acquired that would be considered a C&R under Federal law while you possess an C&R FFL license. As a C&R FFL holder, you are required to log any C&R firearms as defined by Federal law that you acquire or dipose of while you hold a C&R FFL.

As far as grey area firearms like the modified 59/66 or bare receivers and barrelled receivers, I would also log them anyway. It's better to log more than necessary rather than not logging what is necessary.

[EOD Guy]

How'd ya' figure that? It aint 50 years old

Since it is on the C&R list, it doesn't have to be 50 years old to be a C&R. That is only one of the criteria that makes a C&R firearm.

Like I said, California uses the Federal definition. If the Feds say a firearm is C&R, so does California. There is nothing in California law that says a firearm has to 50 years old to be a C&R.

[metalhead357]

Since it is on the C&R list, it doesn't have to be 50 years old to be a C&R. That is only one of the criteria that makes a C&R firearm.

Like I said, California uses the Federal definition. If the Feds say a firearm is C&R, so does California. There is nothing in California law that says a firearm has to 50 years old to be a C&R.

As per the DOJ website FAQ #14

14.I want to sell a gun to another person, i.e., a private party transfer. Am I required to conduct the transaction through a licensed California firearms dealer?
Yes. Firearm sales must be conducted through a fully licensed California firearms dealer. Failure to do so is a violation of California law. The buyer (and seller, in the event that the buyer is denied), must meet the normal firearm purchase and delivery requirements. "Antique firearms," as defined in Section 921(a)(16) of Title 18 of the United States Code, and curio or relic rifles/shotguns, defined in Section 178.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations that are over 50 years old, are exempt from this requirement. Firearms dealers are required to process private party transfers upon request. Firearms dealers may charge a fee not to exceed $10 per firearm for conducting a private party transfer. Example:
a. Bla Blahb.(PC section 12072(d))

http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.htm

Seems to me you need to MEET BOTH the Fed list AND the 50 year requirment...........

[ocabj]

Logging a firearm as a C&R in your bound book has nothing to do with what California defines is a C&R firearm. Your bound book is being kept under Federal guidelines for C&R holders.

[metalhead357]

Thanks OC~

I get that but me-thinks that once you've either your dealing with a modded one coming into state, or a sale here to a PP then I'd think you're nearing "outta defintion" for Fed..... and if the Gun isn't 50 years old (for the cali connection) then it cant even be a FTF transfer without a trip to the other FFL'r grade and the 10 day wait.

Sorry for the interupt in this one folks~ These Yugos just have me asking questions everywhere

As to specific post....
Everyone I've known with a C&R has logged in ALL firearms, whether C&R or not. As already mentioned, overzealous bookwork might not be a bad thing.

[TonyNorCal]

As some have mentioned above, the Yugo 59/66 is a C&R designated firearm. The Feds/ATF determine what is and isn't C&R. States have the ability to place restrictions on which firearms can be sold within their borders and under what circumstances. The 50 year rule is a California incarnation. It says that in order to use your C&R to order from out of state or to do a no-FFL transfer within California the long gun must be geater than 50 years.

So when someone says something isn't C&R eligible in California they don't mean it's not a C&R. They mean it isn't eligible to be purchased with the C&R when one is in California. Make sense? California hasn't made their own definition of C&Rs, they've only placed restrictions on what you can order with your license.

But California law doesn't change the designation of a C&R. If the ATF says it's a C&R then it is. The ATF requires you to log in all C&R firearms you acquire while licensed. It doesn't specify whether or not you used your license to acquire them. So even if you purchase a Yugo 59/66 from a dealer the safe thing to do would be to log it in. Doesn't cost you anything and better to have it than not.

Now, on the question of whether modded C&Rs are still C&Rs and the whole 'original military configuration' thing. This seems like the biggest grey area. By a strict interpretation of this removing the bayonet from a Russian SKS would negate C&R. However, it doesn't seem likely to me that this is what's intended. Look at large distributors and Fulton Armory.

You can order a Garand in .308 from Fulton Armory. One which they build (using a USGI receiver). And they will send it to a C&R. Same with their M1 carbines. My take is that if a visible entity like that feels this is acceptable then it's probably not an issue. If it were I am sure they and others would have heard by now. I'm not saying do it because Fulton does. I'm just saying it seems unlikely to me that if it were illegal they'd be doing it.

But it's an area that doesn't seem especially clear and if you ask on Gunboards you'll get different answers.