USC to UMP conversions?

[ROCKETW19]

is there anything wrong with doin the conversion? the 10 round mag will be locked in place with a radd lock! and barrel kept stock 16". thanks for your time.

[Josh3239]

I believe the UMP stock folds. Make sure that the rifle is over 30 inches with the stock folded. If not, then find a way to fix the stock or add a barrel extention.

Good luck

[ROCKETW19]

I believe the UMP stock folds. Make sure that the rifle is over 30 inches with the stock folded. If not, then find a way to fix the stock or add a barrel extention.

Good luck

thats my only problem it has to be 30"s? if so that dosnt seem to hard. anyone happen to know the length of a UMP with a folded stock?
thanks bro.

[Riptide]

I believe the UMP lower also uses a different magazine. If you can get 10 round UMP mags then you are all set. The USC mags are different than the UMP ones. I don't think they work on the UMP lower.

[ROCKETW19]

I believe the UMP lower also uses a different magazine. If you can get 10 round UMP mags then you are all set. The USC mags are different than the UMP ones. I don't think they work on the UMP lower.

didnt even think if the 10 rounders would fit the UMP.
boy oh boy tryin to have a cool gun is very hard in california.
i invited ED at HDPS to come start a thread about this stuff i hope he does maybe between him and all of us we can come up with something cool and legal.

[ROCKETW19]

oh boy next question do imported and domestic OLLs follow the same rules. like mag locks and pistol grips?

[Josh3239]

Its to short with the stock extended. According to WikiPedia, extended: 27.2inches and folded: 17.7 inches. Magazines are also 25 rounds.

Sounds like to much work.

[ROCKETW19]

Its to short with the stock extended. According to WikiPedia, extended: 27.2inches and folded: 17.7 inches. Magazines are also 25 rounds.

Sounds like to much work.

yes thoes measurments are for a real UMP or a conversion with a short barrel 7 1/2"s . i would use the factory barrel that is 16"s so im realy close to the length but there are so many other things i just dont understand about imported guns, do they follow the same rules as domestic? where do i find this sort of info?

[ROCKETW19]

hers is the web site for the conversion i want to use. www.hdps.org maybe that will explane what im tryin to do. scrool down to Machine Services and click the USC to UMP conversions

[radd]

Since this USC project started, I learned a few thing or two about the USC. A lot of information came from Ed at www.hdps.org.

Here is what he wrote me and I am sure he gets this a lot:

"You are in CA, even using the ten round mag you will be converting from thumbhole to pistol grip thus converting an imported sporter rifle to an imported assault weapon (pistol grip is evil Assault Weapon part)....will need 3 US made parts to satisfy ATF rule 922r. and I don't know about your local laws in CA, CA is not kosher for those conversions.

The ten round will lock in the UMP lower but will have a play side ways, one would need build two spacers......"


"Hello,

I don't know much about CA laws, I know one thing...I had customers before asking for the conversion and they did their home work after speaking with me and I explained my situation in dealing with CA and AW.....they contacted CA DOJ and got a "NO", I also had a phone call from CA DOJ telling me that would be a no no.

You must present your idea and get some written OK on your idea before you go any further to avoid any future problems and give money to attorneys....

I have no problems selling those parts (no mags) as they are not regulated, but you , the end user, is responsible to obey your local laws."

"Here, same for a starter:

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/semi_auto_faq.txt

Some of info. in this link is for information prior the ban sunset but the 922.r rule still ruling

This ruling does not affect what is probably the easiest way
to avoid section 922(r), replacing enough parts on the imported
weapon with U.S. made parts so as to have it no longer be
considered "imported". There is a list of parts that count toward
this in the ATF regulation at 27 CFR 178.39. As long as the
firearm has an imported parts content of ten or fewer of the listed
parts, it is not considered to be imported.

27 CFR section 178.39

(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle, or any
shotgun, using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in
paragraph (c) of this section if the assembled firearm is
prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) as not
being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to
sporting purposes.

(b) The provisions of this section shall not apply to:

(1) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for sale or
distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United
States or any department or agency thereof, or to any
State or any department, agency, or political subdivision
thereof; or

(2) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for the
purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the
Director under the provisions of section 178.151; or

(3) The repair of any rifle or shotgun which had been
imported into or assembled in the United States prior to
November 30, 1990, or the replacement of any part of such
firearm.

(c) For purposes of this section, the term imported parts are:

(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or
stampings
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)
(5) Muzzle attachments
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Buttstocks
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearm handguards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Followers
(20) Floorplates

Thus you can put an imported flash hider on your Colt AR-15 A2
HBAR Sporter, even though that is a configuration that would be
banned from import, as the gun is otherwise domestically made.
The regulation was re-written to allow exactly this, after a first
draft was put in the Federal Register (the initial proposed
rulemaking can be found at 56 Fed. Reg. 41105, August 19, 1991).
You could also use an imported magazine in your Colt gun, even
though that has three parts, according to the list.

But, if you want to build using all imported parts except the
receiver, or including the receiver (by altering a whole imported
rifle), you will have to make it in a configuration that BATF would
allow for import; i.e., a "sporting" configuration. You can ask
the Technology Branch of BATF what would be allowed. This question
is not answered by section 922(r) or the regulations, BATF seems to
be perpetually changing what is OK on an imported semi-auto and
what is not. They haven't made regulations about it, it seems to be
pretty fluid.

Best Regards,

Ed Montana

http://www.hdps.org/

Essentially, you will need 3 additional U.S. Made parts to satisfy the federal ruling on imported guns with evil feature. In addition since you are in CA, then you also need to comply to the local regulation on rifles with pistol grip. You will need to have at least 30" overall length and magazine capacity no more than 10 rounds.

I hope this helps. But please also do some research on your own and be knowledgeable to what your are doing to play it safe.

[Riptide]

To satisfy the California 30" requirement you could attach a fake suppressor or other barrel attachment. I don't believe it has to be "permanent."

To satisfy 922.r you could replace 3 parts with 3 of these US parts:
1. US Trigger
2. US floorplate for 10 rd UMP Mag.
3. US follower for 10 rd UMP Mag.
4. US Barrel

Unfortunately I have not seen US replacement parts for USC 10 round Mags.
I have not seen modified UMP mags blocked to 10 rounds neither.

They really need to have more US UMP replacement parts like a US sear or US stock etc.

[ROCKETW19]

ok RADD your info helped and confused me a lil bit. first ill start by saying i dont understand half the language but some i did. if i got this right my imported gun wont be imported if i play the parts number correctly? i also wont have a "assult weapon" if my mag is attached? if it isnt a assult weapon i can have a folding stock and pistol grip? then all i need to do is make sure its 30inches at all times (even with the stock folded). am i missing anything else? are there any cali laws i didnt cover?
thanks for your time and thanks for the mag lock.

[xenophobe]

The USC UMP conversion is 26" with the stock folded.

[idk]

Question
Now if someone has a USC that is a registered AW they can make it into a UMP clone ?
Roger

[Addax]

is there anything wrong with doin the conversion? the 10 round mag will be locked in place with a radd lock! and barrel kept stock 16". thanks for your time.

You can make the conversion by doing the following:

1) The magazine is fixed (first and foremost)

2) The UMP Folding Stock has to be pinned (permanently with a pin and spot weld) in the extended position. I would recommend this even with the new USC Tool Enabled Magazine Release Button.

2A) You can avoid permanently pinning the stock in the extended position, but adding a fake can (spot welded to the barrel) and keep the stock as a fully funcitonal folding stock but making sure that the overall length including installing the fake can and with the stock in the folded position is 30" or more, and you have to have the mag in a fixed configuration.

3) Everything Radd pointed out, 922r US Mfg. Parts etc.

IMHO, it is a waste of money if you are going after the UMP look, you are going to end up spending allot of money for just looks. I would not waste the time, money and effort to add the UMP stock to the USC, just leave it alone, and add some scope / accessory rails and Radd' Tool Enabled Magazine Release, and have fun with the USC.