Finger tip bullet button tool?...

[Standard]

Its a lot better than having to dig a bullet out of your pocket every 10 rounds.

[stuntdummy]

I feel it is a tool and legal, but I honestly don't see why people get excited about these types of things. Are people really practicing tactical reloads and participating in carbine classes using 10 round, mag-locked ARs and a fingertip extension?

Yup.

[Seagrave7]

I feel it is a tool and legal, but I honestly don't see why people get excited about these types of things. Are people really practicing tactical reloads and participating in carbine classes using 10 round, mag-locked ARs and a fingertip extension?

I did. I took a 2 day Magpul Carbine 2 course last year and was easily able to do tactical reloads during the class. I ran the whole course with the GPIK. Worked great. I used it on my middle finger so that it did not interfere with my shooting finger.

Link to my write up last year regarding the GPIK as a bullet button tool.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=197311

[Fate]

So, my concern is if we start getting "cute" and using g-picks, or velcro strips embedded with screws wrapped around our fingers, or gloves with rivets in the fingers, or anything other than a bullet, ammunition cartridge, or what would be considered a "normal" tool, etc. then we are setting ourselves up for a fall if, as Fate put it, you come up against an aggressive DA.

The word "prosthesis" always comes to mind when discussing these attachments. And that has the potential to open the door to prosecution.

But this is mostly an academic discussion until someone has to defend it in court. That's not happened. There is no case law AFAIK on these.

I've never stated that it's illegal. I just have concerns that it's not as defensible as many other CA-legal things that are actually based on the definitions found in the PC.

Personally, I'm uncomfortable with the risk v. reward because of those areas open to interpretation.

[The Director]

^then make sure you never touch any tools with your hands. They could be considered prostheses.

[Fate]

^then make sure you never touch any tools with your hands. They could be considered prostheses.

In order to prevent appearing ignorant, it's good to actually look up a word if you don't know what it means.

[shark92651]

I did. I took a 2 day Magpul Carbine 2 course last year and was easily able to do tactical reloads during the class. I ran the whole course with the GPIK. Worked great. I used it on my middle finger so that it did not interfere with my shooting finger.

Link to my write up last year regarding the GPIK as a bullet button tool.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=197311

That is what I was wondering about, I would probably find it annoying to have something attached to the tip of my trigger finger.

[Bhobbs]

I think that would be pushing the tool thing too far. It basically becomes part of your finger and allows you to drop the mag as you would normally. But go ahead and get one so you can be the test case. If it goes well I will consider it.

[double_action]

I'll jump in here. I've used/use the gpik and I do use it on my trigger finger. I've trimmed the front of it and it actually gives a nice index for my trigger finger. Dropping mags requires me to stretch a bit to get the tool inside the BB, but it's not to bad.

[The Director]

I think that would be pushing the tool thing too far. It basically becomes part of your finger and allows you to drop the mag as you would normally. But go ahead and get one so you can be the test case. If it goes well I will consider it.

It becomes part of your finger? Really?

Does a pair of scissors become part of your hand because it has a loop that holds them on?

[The Director]

In order to prevent appearing ignorant, it's good to actually look up a word if you don't know what it means.

Prosthesis
1. a device, either external or implanted, that substitutes for or supplements a missing or defective part of the body.

I'm well aware of what it means, Archimedes, and before you cogitate on the matter any further, you should refer to the above definition and explain to me how something that goes on the tip of your finger could be considered a prosthesis. Then, refer back to my original post saying that by your logic, any tool would be a prosthesis.

[upinflames2400]

Well put

[Seagrave7]

That is what I was wondering about, I would probably find it annoying to have something attached to the tip of my trigger finger.

In addition I used it with a Bullet Button Speed Funnel. Helps with speed of tactical reloads.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=106298&highlight=funnel

[Fate]

Prosthesis
1. a device, either external or implanted, that substitutes for or supplements a missing or defective part of the body.

I'm well aware of what it means, Archimedes, and before you cogitate on the matter any further, you should refer to the above definition and explain to me how something that goes on the tip of your finger could be considered a prosthesis. Then, refer back to my original post saying that by your logic, any tool would be a prosthesis.

Merriam Webster defines it as such: an artificial device to replace or augment a missing or impaired part of the body.

One could argue that the use of the finger (in working ability terms) was "impaired" when the bullet button was added. Thus the finger that activates the mag release button no longer works "as normal" nor can it operate the button normally. The g-pik serves as a prosthesis which then returns full functionality to that finger to press and release a fixed magazine. It is not a bullet which must be held between the finger and thumb. It is not a screwdriver or other hand tool. It is "a device, either external or implanted, that substitutes for or supplements a missing or defective part of the body. " Is it still a tool at that point? Maybe yes. Maybe no. Willing to play for keeps in court over it?

Yes, the above argument is very twisted and tortured logic. However, this is exactly the kind of thing that is fed to a jury. And sometimes they buy it. I'd rather stick to things that have penal code foundations. The g-pik + fixed mag has none.

You can try and shout me down all you wish, but you cannot PROVE my concerns are 100% without merit. Show me case law. Show me solid definition in the PC. You can't. Get arrested, charged, and tried over this and there IS some risk that things will go sideways. You're dealing with an imperfect justice system and wholly at its mercy at that point.

So weigh the concerns, make up your own mind as to what level of risk you are willing to live with. If you believe it's clearly a tool, then use it. I won't stop you or tell you you're wrong.

[The Director]

Tortured logic doesn't begin to describe your argument. Considering there is no case law for a bullet button, I'm not sure how anyone could assuage your concerns with case law for a gpick.