Finger tip bullet button tool?...

[upinflames2400]

LOUD NOISES!!!

[DedEye]

Still the same ol' Dedeye, I see.

Tigers rarely change their stripes.

My point with that absurd example is that unless you're surgically implanting a device in your skin, you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who will define it as a tool.

There are many hands free tools, including countless hands free tools that attach to your body.

Hell, even if you did surgically implant it, it could still be argued that it's a tool since it's an inorganic extension and not you.

LOUD NOISES!!!

[upinflames2400]

Haha I was hoping someone would get that. So what's the verdict?... Finger tip BB tool-go or no go?

[Fate]

Oh so NOW you're trying to be relevant instead of inflammitory. Feel that ban hammer hovering, huh? Tigers and stripes indeed. You guys have a good nite. I'm done debating comfort levels.

[johnrunner89]

[Victory]

http://www.gpik.net/products.aspx

There is another thread on Calguns about them, as well.

-Vic

[Standard]

I use one. Its a tool, plain and simple.

[fliparch]

I thought of getting this but I don't really shoot tactical where I have to drop mag quickly and reload another mag that I would need this so I opt not getting one.

[BlueGhillie]

Anyone who thinks this tool is as fast as a non-PRK mag release is crazy. Try using those things in the dark or under stress. It's a tool. If I handed you my rifle and this tool you couldn't remove the mag. That seems pretty clear to me.

[Standard]

It doesn't matter anyways. The law doesn't say "must be difficult to change the mag" it says that it requires the use of a tool, which this is. When I'm out shooting, I wear this tool on my middle finger and drop mags just like if I was out of state. It's not quite as fast because you still have to make sure to align the parts correctly, but it's so much faster than looking for a bullet to drop your mag with, that its not even funny.

[joefrank64k]

Honestly, I've always felt like these were major gray area. Tools are often thought of as "hand held." This isn't held. It's essentially an extension of your finger, just narrower. Motion and time to release a magazine is virtually the same as a standard mag release and your finger. I know some use them. I just think it wouldn't be a simple case to defend in court should you come up against an aggressive DA. Toss in those typically seated on a jury and all bets are off. YMMV.

I had similar reservations, Fate.

My thinking was...The only reason we feel it's defensible to use a bullet as a tool (which is something you wouldn't normally think of as a tool) is because bullets are defined as a tool in California law.

IIRC, this "bullet is a tool" language was specifically inserted to cover the SKS, since it was felt that without language defining a bullet as a tool, then the SKS would be an SB23 "assault weapon", because it's magazine could be detached "without a tool".

Do you see where this thought is going? It was deemed necessary to specifically define what constitutes a tool beyond the norm (screwdrivers, punches, hammers, pliers, etc.). The only objects beyond the norm defined as "tools" in California law are "bullets or ammunition cartridges."

So, my concern is if we start getting "cute" and using g-picks, or velcro strips embedded with screws wrapped around our fingers, or gloves with rivets in the fingers, or anything other than a bullet, ammunition cartridge, or what would be considered a "normal" tool, etc. then we are setting ourselves up for a fall if, as Fate put it, you come up against an aggressive DA.

Now, to counter what I just wrote, I have PM'd Bwiese about my concerns and he didn't seem the least bit troubled...he said that as long as whatever you are using (not part of the human body) is not attached to the gun in any way, then anything can be used to push the button. He went on to say that tool is always going to be construed very broadly.

My .02...

[The Director]

Wow - some of you guys sure are paranoid. Unless you were born with a gpick embedded in your flesh it's a tool. what's so hard about this?

Plus all you BLM rambos got plenty of time to put the damn G pick in your pocket if you see a ranger coming....tell them you are using a bullet to drop your mag if you're so paranoid.

You think they're going to frisk you, find the G pick and haul you to jail?

Wow. Some of you need to give up your black rifles. Too dangerous!

[The Director]

I had similar reservations, Fate.

My thinking was...The only reason we feel it's defensible to use a bullet as a tool (which is something you wouldn't normally think of as a tool) is because bullets are defined as a tool in California law.

Really? Did they define every tool that could be used? Did they say bobby pins weren't allowed? Or Q tips? The fact they added a bullet tip should make you feel better about the fact that they are basically saying "any sharp pointy object in the universe which is not attached to the rifle - even a bullet"

[Standard]

I don't see how someone could feel comfortable using a bullet as a tool, but not this thing.

[shark92651]

I feel it is a tool and legal, but I honestly don't see why people get excited about these types of things. Are people really practicing tactical reloads and participating in carbine classes using 10 round, mag-locked ARs and a fingertip extension?