Survival Rifle/ Sierra Nevada

[1lostinspace]

So whats the history? From what I know, M16 came into the millitary being said that its made with "space aged" material and to be more reliable in the 1960's, but our boys were being killed because of jamming issues, then, they issued a cleaning kit to help out on the issue of jamming, which worked, but in a battle, can you really clean a gun and fight? Even until this day, the direct impingement dumped back into the mechanics isnt perfect. Why else did they create piston driven AR's? But, Im not going to get into a debate of which gun is better, Im just saying plain and simple, my AR james more then my SU and I acknowledge that KT SU arnt the best gun ever built either.

dude are smoking something do some searches and you will see that Kel tec is the biggest POS ever.
The M16 was sent into combat using ball powder left over from .308 Nato rounds , with out a chromed chamber or cleaning kit.
I don't think you have an AR or maybe don't know how to clean one.

[fusionstar]

I'd say a Kel-Tec Su-16. Their .223 Rem. IF you reload, you can make sub-sonic loads to shoot squarrels and full-load for deers and bears. I dont think any animals in CA can servive a .223 round. I've shot plenty of Bears, Boars, 8 point (western sytle count) deers with them and they all knock down with my 1st shot. I've shot squarrels with my reduced loads and their pretty clean. Just aim for the head. Its not that hard.

Photos or I declare

[wildhawker]

The spending limit notwithstanding, I vote AR in .22 with a masterkey.

[1lostinspace]

Photos or I declare

ahahah that's too funny let's see one of your jamming AR while your at it.

[mif_slim]

dude are smoking something do some searches and you will see that Kel tec is the biggest POS ever.
The M16 was sent into combat using ball powder left over from .308 Nato rounds , with out a chromed chamber or cleaning kit.
I don't think you have an AR or maybe don't know how to clean one.

Yeah, these are not mines, they just happen to be registered under my name on accident:




And SU POS? Here's its grouping at 100 yards:

Thats not a POS in my book.

[fusionstar]

I own and have shot alot of cheap ammo out of my SU16 and it has never jammed, NEVER! I have shot Ar's and even when clean have jammed. So dont under estimate a POS keltec. Its kinda funny like when you see at the range a 2k custom 1911 jamm and a POS Hi Point keep on shooting without jamming. I own cheap and expensive rifles, expensive rifles arent always worth the $$$ and cheap guns are always cheap!

find one properly built and maintained ar15 jam.

ONE..

I have fired thousands of rounds over the years through various ar15's i've built and purchased. NONE of them have given me anything more than a stuck case with dirty steel cased wolf.

Its ignorance and poor equipment that makes guns fail.

Dont buy a ar15 from a company that dont even bother testing your rifle before shipping it to you and complain later when you get jams and problems. You may get a winner from these companies but there are a crapload more lemons per lot than milspec companies.



The ar15 platform is solid. The users are not.

and yes I have handled a keltec and no I did not like it. It may be reliable but for the same price and I mean the exact same price.. you can pick up an amazingly wonderful saiga which in my opinion is better looking.

Well how will you fit a saiga in a backpack? You dont, you get a sling or modify your gun with a folding stock. We're talking about survival in the woods. why would you have your rifle in the bag when your moving about?

Well with the keltec you dont have to modify to your gun and your good to go. true but its not a saiga, period.

well I have a bunch of preban mags for my keltec... they have adapters to fit saigas to accept them too.

How many saigas have you seen that has blown up in peoples hands from normal use? none

how about kel tec
I have seen 1 in person and a handful on post w/ photos.
This was enough to steer me away from it.

Anyway.. your chances of being mauled by a bear are rare. You'll crap your pants if you live, you'll crap your pants if you die. So carry a 22lr for small game, and a 44mag/454 casull for bears, deer, boars, mtn lions.

[aplinker]

So whats the history? From what I know, M16 came into the millitary being said that its made with "space aged" material and to be more reliable in the 1960's, but our boys were being killed because of jamming issues, then, they issued a cleaning kit to help out on the issue of jamming, which worked, but in a battle, can you really clean a gun and fight? Even until this day, the direct impingement dumped back into the mechanics isnt perfect. Why else did they create piston driven AR's? But, Im not going to get into a debate of which gun is better, Im just saying plain and simple, my AR james more then my SU and I acknowledge that KT SU arnt the best gun ever built either.

This thread has gotten way off base.

I think you're very out of touch with reality and like to spout BS gossip.

The M16 had issues in Vietnam for a number of reasons, but it's not because it's an inherently bad platform.

The failures due to DI are tiny. That's a complete myth.

If your AR jams then there's something wrong with YOUR gun. Any chance you bought from M1S or DTI?

[supermario]

Actually my LMT that would jam, had a RRA lower that was very picky with the mags, so that probaby was the problem, i just went with a LMT lower but have not tested it since. And although i love my Keltec and it has not jammed ever, I dont and would not use wolf, because of the rumors i have heard of keltec blowing up. And I do have a saiga and i would depend my life on it and i think its more reliable than ANY other rifle out there. Saiga i would say is the way to go for a long outdoor trip to the mountains!

[supermario]

Sorry for getting offbase!

[mif_slim]

This thread has gotten way off base.

I think you're very out of touch with reality and like to spout BS gossip.

The M16 had issues in Vietnam for a number of reasons, but it's not because it's an inherently bad platform.

The failures due to DI are tiny. That's a complete myth.

If your AR jams then there's something wrong with YOUR gun. Any chance you bought from M1S or DTI?

Myth or no myth, my father went through it, and when I got my AR, he looked at it with disgust*. Yeah, I can only imagine almost being over run by VC in a base and all of a sudden, your rifle jams on you the very first three shots. Luckly he had grenades to fend off the VC.

Anyways, no, their CMMG and DPMS AR. I dont dislike AR's, I wouldnt own them if I didnt like them, but at the same time, they would be the last rifle I'd grab if SHTF. And yes, I do agree that if my AR jams then its my gun, so much to as if the SU FTE then its that SU too.

[wildhawker]

Myth or no myth, my father went through it, and when I got my AR, he looked at it with discuss.

Was that 'disgust', or did you two talk about it?

[mif_slim]

Was that 'disgust', or did you two talk about it?

LOL, thanks for correction! LOL

[frigginchi]

I still want a Crossfire!

[Bad Voodoo]

Hey was wondering what kind of rifle would be good for long term hiking/survival in the sierra nevada's... I would assume you would have to go for mostly small game, birds/squirrels n stuff, My experience with rifles is only with an m16, but im a great shot with iron sites ... Anyway i dont want to spend more than $400
Should i just get a basic 22 for small game? or would i be better off with something larger caliber? thx for the info

A .22 if it's strictly for "survival," would be a great solution. Personally, I'm looking for a .44 magnum lever gun with no more than a 22" barrel. I'm leaning pretty heavily toward a Marlin 1894 of some sort right now. .44 mag/special can be a pretty all-purpose rifle round, the rifle profile is pretty flat and light, it's dependable, and it's relatively inexpensive. I can't imagine needing to pack any more than that around the Sierras, good for hunting and protection. YMMV.

[smle-man]

The ideal choice is the SA M6 in .22lr and .410. It can double as a canoe paddle and a mountaineering staff. It is a tough little gun, lightweight and a great small game getter.