Looking for a long range hunting/target rifle...

[LynnJr]

My 80 year old father shot a decent buck at 1053 yards with a 6BR so surely the young stallions here can do it.Ooops I gotta go help him get his walker out.

The 6BR using a 105 has the same trajectory as the 300 WinMag using a 190 grain bullet with the exception of retained energy.The 308 while a decent 100-600 yard gun has the trajectory of a mortar at 1000 yards.Everyone is entitled to there own opinion just not there own facts.

[CSACANNONEER]

My 80 year old father shot a decent buck at 1053 yards with a 6BR so surely the young stallions here can do it.Ooops I gotta go help him get his walker out.

The 6BR using a 105 has the same trajectory as the 300 WinMag using a 190 grain bullet with the exception of retained energy.The 308 while a decent 100-600 yard gun has the trajectory of a mortar at 1000 yards.Everyone is entitled to there own opinion just not there own facts.

Lynn,

There's a difference between your father's abilities and experiences vs. someone who wants a .2moa 1000 yd rig for $500. The first can ethically take a shot that far, the later shouldn't even be hunting until he/she learns a lot more and shouldn't take a 1000 yard shot at game until he/she has years of experience shooting long range to extreme long range.

[JMP]

^What CSA says. Nobody is saying that .308 is the best choice for accuracy at a given distance. It is, however, a great versatile caliber that is so common it all but grows on trees. I have never heard of anyone quitting shooting because he bought a $500 entry level rig that he can't hang in competitions. Let the new shooter put in reps in a common caliber with a long barrel life. The average person starting out cannot realize the full capability of even a cheap Remington factory barrel. There's no one-size fits all gun/caliber. If there was, we'd all have a hell of lot less guns.

In short, if you are an average person, solidify your fundamentals with something like a .308. If you are a shooting prodigy that's never hit a torso sized target past half a km, then get a 6mm or 6.5mm...or just go with a .375 CT for growing room.

[michaelthetrojan]

I think the entire thing was in jest.

hahaha ok, i wanted to clarify before i went all captain kirk on him. (her?)

To ar-15 barrels,
i agree, 30-06 is by far the most widely know caliber for hunting,
secondly do you have a link to popular hunting calibers and their purposes>?

[LynnJr]

Lynn,

There's a difference between your father's abilities and experiences vs. someone who wants a .2moa 1000 yd rig for $500. The first can ethically take a shot that far, the later shouldn't even be hunting until he/she learns a lot more and shouldn't take a 1000 yard shot at game until he/she has years of experience shooting long range to extreme long range.

CsaCannoneer
I agree with the jist of what your saying and my father shouldn't have taken that shot either.He was down to 500 lbs of energy at that distance.

Point was the 308 gets recommended here alot and while I own several they are about done at 600 yards for Joe Ordinary.

Guys like Randall and Lane don't really count because of the same reasons you posted above.They know the cartridge better than there own hand and are willing to shoot very long barrels with twists that put the bullet on the ragged edge of stability so they can get some extra velocity most new shooters won't be able to duplicate.

In my OPINION a new shooter should get something with 22-26 moa of drop for 1000 yard shooting leaving the lasers with short barrel life and the mortars with velocity issues to those who better understand ballistics.

I like the pictures of Palomino and always enjoyed talking with Skip.I think the OP put the $500 limit on the scope and not the rifle but I didn't go back to check.

[CSACANNONEER]

Why not just go with a 1000 yard 9mm?

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=14609373#post14609373

[adramalech916]

For all of you who think I am first trying to buy a rifle for $500 if you read my first post I was talking about optics when addressing a cost. I was planning on spending upwards of $1,500 on a good factory rifle to shoot out of the box and work on hand-loading. I am sorry for being vague. I also did correct my post later on for around 1-2 MOA, as I am not familiar with using MOA I did a newbie mistake of mixing Inches with Minute of Angle. I am just figuring out what would be the most accurate I could get out of a $1000-$1500 factory rifle and what would be a good optic combination for 700-1000 yard target practice. I was also not looking at hunting at 700+ yards as that is unethical, I just wanted something versatile that would be a good mid-range target gun that could also be used as a somewhat decent tree-stand rifle for hunting deer, elk, pig, etc..

I am not just looking at .308 Win. I was also looking at .260 Rem, 7MM Rem Mag, .30-06, and couple other calibers. I just thought because of the cheapness and abundance of .308 it would make a good rifle to shoot if say I needed to find ammo and I was in a mom & pop shop, in the middle of no-where, or if ammo in CA became scarce or more expensive.

[MongooseV8]

In that case take a look at the high end Savages in there target line, or a high end 700.

260
6.5x284
6.5x55
7mm mag
Ect will get you there with some effort. Expect to have to rebarrel whatever you buy to get the cartridge and accuracy you are looking for. Factory Savage/700 barrels will give you plenty of great practice though.

[JMP]

For all of you who think I am first trying to buy a rifle for $500 if you read my first post I was talking about optics when addressing a cost. I was planning on spending upwards of $1,500 on a good factory rifle to shoot out of the box and work on hand-loading. I am sorry for being vague. I also did correct my post later on for around 1-2 MOA, as I am not familiar with using MOA I did a newbie mistake of mixing Inches with Minute of Angle. I am just figuring out what would be the most accurate I could get out of a $1000-$1500 factory rifle and what would be a good optic combination for 700-1000 yard target practice. I was also not looking at hunting at 700+ yards as that is unethical, I just wanted something versatile that would be a good mid-range target gun that could also be used as a somewhat decent tree-stand rifle for hunting deer, elk, pig, etc..

I am not just looking at .308 Win. I was also looking at .260 Rem, 7MM Rem Mag, .30-06, and couple other calibers. I just thought because of the cheapness and abundance of .308 it would make a good rifle to shoot if say I needed to find ammo and I was in a mom & pop shop, in the middle of no-where, or if ammo in CA became scarce or more expensive.

All those cartridges will meet your stated objectives. Should you want to go down to a 6mm, then .243 Win is the way to go for hunting, but it does not have a long barrel life for high precision shooting, but it'll be fine for hunting. It is, however, a good common factory caliber that is easily rechambered to most other short action cartridges.

1-2 MOA isn't that demanding if you are hitting steel targets in the desert. 2 MOA is 21" at 1000 yards. For competition purposes, a $1,500 .308 Win is not optimal, but it will get you to 1,000 yards with a decent 24"+ barrel with popular bullets like the 175gr SMK or the 155gr Scenar (there are others, but these are popular choices for attaining the requisite velocity in conjunction with enough ballistic efficiency). Cheap 7.62 NATO ball ammo will probably not cut it.

For reloading, .308 is the easiest as it'll function with the most powders as it functions with a relatively quick rifle powder like Varget (or about 15 others), and there is a wide selection of brass and other components that aren't too expensive. After that, it's 30-06. Generally, cartridges that require more volume with bullets of smaller diameter and longer length are more picky. As the case volume/charge mass increases relative to the size of your caliber, you will likely be using powders with a lower relative quickness; otherwise, excess pressure would build too fast. This is one of the reasons the .308 Winchester enjoys a long barrel life. On the other hand, longer and smaller caliber bullets combined with a larger volume charge, tend to have the ability for higher performance, especially at longer distances. So, the two are at odds with each other.

I have no clue why people act like a given cartridge is a life decision. It isn't, and most have several chamberings capable of 1,000 yard+ shooting. 1,000 yards isn't that far these days with modern ballistics, optics, and machining. It was a lot more impressive when they were shooting at people 1,000 meters with Mausers. I think this was when LynnJr was young and only had Mosin, so he is put off by .30 cal chamberings. CSA, on the other hand, grew up in the era of the .50 BMG, so he loves that beast.

Just buy a good rifle, and you'll be happy. Ultimately, you may need more than $1,500 for what you want. In that price range, for out of the box performance, I'd be looking at the better Tikkas. Otherwise, look at the Remington 700s with some performance upgrades. (Of course, I know that someone will probably suggest the Savage F-Class.)

[ar15barrels]

I am not just looking at .308 Win. I was also looking at .260 Rem, 7MM Rem Mag, .30-06, and couple other calibers. I just thought because of the cheapness and abundance of .308 it would make a good rifle to shoot if say I needed to find ammo and I was in a mom & pop shop, in the middle of no-where, or if ammo in CA became scarce or more expensive.

You will not find the cheap ammo very interesting after you have fired some good match ammo.
Since you reload, it's actually cheaper to reload for 6mm or 6.5mm cartridges than it is for 30 caliber cartridges.
Bullets are generally priced by weight.
Lighter bullets cost less and also recoil less which makes them much nicer to shoot.
Look seriously at the 6.5 Creedmoor and 243 Winchester as lighter recoiling and flatter shooting options for a target rifle.

You can buy a $550 Rem 700 SPS Varmint in 243 and drop it into a $250 stock and have a great shooting rifle.
It will shoot the Hornady 105 BTHP's really nicely.

Compare the price and BC to 175gr matckings...

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1165719633/hornady-match-bullets-243-caliber-6mm-243-diameter-105-grain-hollow-point-boat-tail

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1482335572/sierra-matchking-bullets-30-caliber-308-diameter-175-grain-hollow-point-boat-tail

[desert dog]

If the "Best of the West" clowns can shoot both an elk's eyeballs at 1500 yards with a 5 pound 7mm mag, then anyone can do it
Of course, their secret is in the magical Huskemaw scopes (tasco that has been blessed by a warlock).

To the op: stop following internet hype, movie BS, or the claims of mall ninjas. hitting anything at 1000 yards with the calibers you listed is a tedious task, much less shooting a tiny group at that distance. I hear the "bubbas" I work with talk all day about their 1/4moa hunting rifles only to watch them miss every deer they shoot at within 200 yards. Get your cheap gun and scope and learn to shoot, that's what you planned on doing anyway.

[MongooseV8]

Haha most of the "mall ninjas" that posted suggestions in this thread shoot more rounds at long range in the span of one year than most people shoot thier whole life!

I spend more money on reloading components every year than It cost to build just about all the fancy/expensive precision rifle builds found here on calguns. And I consider myself an amateur at best. Dont be so quick to discount the excellent advice found here as simple armchair experts. The reality is the posters represented in this thread alone have decades and decades of collective shooting experience and knowledge, it would be foolish to ignore what they have to say!

[JMP]

You will not find the cheap ammo very interesting after you have fired come good ammo.
Since you reload, it's actually cheaper to reload for 6mm or 6.5mm cartridges than it is for 30 caliber cartridges.
Bullets are generally priced by weight.
Lighter bullets cost less and also recoil less which makes them much nicer to shoot.
Look seriously at the 6.5 Creedmoor and 243 Winchester as lighter recoiling and flatter shooting options for a target rifle.

You can buy a $550 Rem 700 SPS Varmint in 243 and drop it into a $250 stock and have a great shooting rifle.
It will shoot the Hornady 105 BTHP's really nicely.

Compare the price and BC to 175gr matckings...

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1165719633/hornady-match-bullets-243-caliber-6mm-243-diameter-105-grain-hollow-point-boat-tail

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/148...oint-boat-tail

^That is all very good advice. However, if I may add, the links for price and BC are a little deceptive. First, for price, it's a more fair comparison to look at bullets of the same manufacturing line. While you may have good results with a given less expensive line, there is less price variance among the same line.

Second, there's a larger difference in ballistic efficiency between a 105gr 6mm and a 175gr .308 that those BCs. The G1 BC that gets published for the 175gr SMK of .505 is for 2,800 fps or greater. That's not a good number to use for a .308 Winchester; more realistically, you'd want to use the .496 that's published for the intermediate velocity range (1,800 to 2,800 fps) since that's going to be where you bullet is for most of it's journey.

Of course, BC's don't tell the whole picture as they are a proxy for ballistic efficiency, which can't be expressed by a scalar constant. However, for the long profile bullets shooting at a longer distance, such as a 105gr 6mm, 139gr 6.5mm, etc...I believe that the G7 BC is a better value to use for estimating the trajectory. It's kind of a judgement call. But, the 6mm and 6.5mm are without question of much higher aerodynamic efficiency than a .308 Winchester. There simply isn't enough cartridge volume to get a .308 bullet of any weight to perform as well as the 6mm and 6.5mm without going to a larger cartridge, such as a .300WM. Once you start going with a long action caliber, then prices begin rising quickly.

I really love the .308 Winchester cartridge, but all the considerations make it tough to live with one chambering.

[CobraRed]

Ballistics aside, will the $ savings from powder and Sierra 6mm bullet over a Sierra 30 cal bullet buy you the new barrel and install you'll be needing soon?

[AGGRO]

.300 win mag for the win. Walmart carries ammo.