Rifle around $500

[MongooseV8]

FWIW the newer Ruger Go Wild rifles are AICS too. Not sure about the 300WM version tho.

[FishnHunt]

[silent_20]

I'm from Victorville

[ShaunBrady]

6.5 Creedmoor has similar external ballistics to a 300 but people don't realize it.

The 6.5cm gives similar ballistics to the 300wm under a fairly narrow set of circumstances.

Starting with the original 6.5cm factory load out of a 24" barrel using the 140 Amax at 2700 fps, it gives 9.6 mils of drop at 1000 yards and 2.3 mils of drift in a 10 mph wind.

The example that Hornady likely used when they came up with that sound bite was something along the lines of a 150 grain spitzer at 3290 fps. The drop and drift are 9.6 and 3.6, a pretty good example of BC beats speed. The problem is nobody that buys 150 grain 300wm ammo really cares, and nobody that shoots 1000 yards seriously considers doing it with that ammo.

If we move on to the the old match/military load with a 190 smk at 2900 fps, we have 8.4 and 2.1. If you're a square kd range guy playing a game that allows sighters, you might decide that drop doesn't matter and minimizing recoil is the priority. If you're playing a game that prioritizes first round hits at unknown distances without a lrf, you might decide the extra recoil was worth it. We're still not up to an even comparison though. That 190 smk is 50's vintage bullet technology.

Using the 30 caliber contemporary of the 140 AMax, the 208 AMax at 2850 fps, the drop and drift is down to 7.9 and 1.8. We're down to 22% less wind drift than the 6.5cm, and we're still not using really modern bullets.

The next step up is the 215 Hybrid at 2850 fps. Both Federal and Berger sell this load. It gives 7.4 and 1.6.

The current state of the art is the 230 Atip. You'll have to load this yourself, and you'll need a 9 twist barrel to do it. I haven't shot it in a 300wm yet, but my 300 Norma 230 Hybrid load pretty much carried straight across so I'll guess you can get 2750 fps from a 24" 300wm. That'll give 7.6 and 1.3.

For reference, the 338 Lapua numbers for Scener ammo are 7.7, 1.8 for the 250 grain and 8.5, 1.6 for the 300. I adjusted the velocity numbers down 20 fps/inch because Lapua uses a 27" reference barrel. The loss is likely closer to 25 fps/inch. The factory Hornady 285 ELDm gives 7.9, 1.5.

If you know what you're doing, the 300wm has a lot more in common with the 338 Lapua than the internet consensus believes, even with factory ammo. That 6.5cm sound bite doesn't have much basis in reality.

I used the G7 BCs from AB Analytics to run the numbers. Velocities were from factory ammo. Some of the velocities needed to be adjusted for the 24" barrel. Sea level atmospheric conditions.

[sigstroker]

LOL, quite the 300 winmag salesman. Can you run the 208's without a weird throat?

[DueceMcGurk]

OP,
My vote is for the 6.5 Grendel. Versatile, accurate, comparably economical. Is that 7.7 Jap going into an Arisaka?

[ar15barrels]

The 6.5cm gives similar ballistics to the 300wm under a fairly narrow set of circumstances.

I was comparing 139-142gr class 6.5mm bullets to the 190smk's as found in factory ammo because that's what most non-reloaders would be using.
Most reloaders already know better and would not be considering a 300 win mag as a target rifle unless they specifically wanted to push the heavier bullets or specifically needed more energy on target for longrange hunting or 1000+yd plate shooting.
If you know what you are doing, you skip right over the 300 and move to a 338 of your liking.

[ShaunBrady]

LOL, quite the 300 winmag salesman. Can you run the 208's without a weird throat?

The larger point was it's the bullet, not the headstamp. A second bulleted item might be don't assume everybody plays the same gun games you do.

The problem isn't usually the throat, but the magazine length can be a problem. The 215s need an OAL of 3.660" to touch the lands in my last R700 300wm with a factory barrel. The internal magazine will go to just under 3.700". There are 3 AICS pattern magazine lengths for the 300wm. The shortest is the original AI. I think it'll take cartridges to 3.6". The plastic magpul version will only go to 3.5". There is an intermediate length AICS pattern that'll take cartridges to 3.7". PTG makes more or less drop in bottom metal for the R700 that takes that magazine. Accurate Mag makes a 338 Lapua CIP length magazine with 300wm feed lips that'll take cartridges to 3.75".

A Ruger American Magnum chamber will take the 215 to 3.690", but the factory magazine limits you to the SAAMI max of 3.340". I use the 208s in that one, but the final solution will be rebarreling it in 7wsm. This probably isn't an uncommon situation with the latest generation of guns that use an intermediate length action for both traditional short and long action cartridges.

[Tere_Hanges]

Turners has a Rem 783 .308win 16.5" heavy threaded barrel with picatinny rail for $330.

https://www.turners.com/remington/remington-783-308-win-165-heav-657745

[d.f.anonymous]

[silent_20]

OP,
My vote is for the 6.5 Grendel. Versatile, accurate, comparably economical. Is that 7.7 Jap going into an Arisaka?

Yes

[sigstroker]

I imagine OP has already made a decision, but I wanted to make this post for posterity. I came across an old yootoob on the same Savage I mentioned early in the thread. The only difference is the video tests the Desert Tactical, but the only difference from the ordinary Tactical is the color of the stock. I posted this because Savage does rebates often, and this may show up again. I found them for $575, minus the $100 rebate it would be $475.

After watching the video I'm kicking myself for not getting one at the time. I was concerned about how smooth the bolt might be. I have two of the older models and the bolt can be stiff to run. It looks pretty smooth in the video though, so it must be the product improved version they came out with a few years ago.

[Tere_Hanges]

I want one, but i then again, I want any 16"-18" .308 bolt gun that takes AI mags.

[The War Wagon]

In general, you are asking for too much for that price.
Everyone wants all that for that price.
Manufacturers don't offer it though.

Pinch MORE pennies, or sell something useless, if the rifle is what you NEED.

[silent_20]

I imagine OP has already made a decision, but I wanted to make this post for posterity. I came across an old yootoob on the same Savage I mentioned early in the thread. The only difference is the video tests the Desert Tactical, but the only difference from the ordinary Tactical is the color of the stock. I posted this because Savage does rebates often, and this may show up again. I found them for $575, minus the $100 rebate it would be $475.

After watching the video I'm kicking myself for not getting one at the time. I was concerned about how smooth the bolt might be. I have two of the older models and the bolt can be stiff to run. It looks pretty smooth in the video though, so it must be the product improved version they came out with a few years ago.

I still haven't bought anything since the current situation. I think I'm going to wait for a bit until things settle down a little bit.