Recommendation for beginner

[sigstroker]

Ayrton Senna is passed away.

Service Rifle is dumb. No scopes. Most of the infantry even uses scopes.

[russ69]

Ayrton Senna is passed away. Service Rifle is dumb. No scopes. Most of the infantry even uses scopes.

Try to keep up with the times old man. Scopes are allowed in service rifle (see the rulebook) or you can shoot the Tactical Rifle class with any scope you want.

[diver160651]

Recommendation for beginner

TMB1


Diver
You really seem to think the FFP scope is the answer to all the world's problems with its subtensions and that there isn't much to shooting Benchrest.
In the real world most Benchrest shooters wouldn't consider your rifles to be very accurate. You need 3.5 inch 5 shot groups at 1000 yards to be in the hunt.
You can go to Sacramento on the 4th Sunday of any month

Lynn,

I have said over and over Benchrest and Belly Benchrest is another thing. (I even apologized for a mistaken cross post) Don't for a minute, put words in my mouth.

I have shot at Folsom with those guys and even seen a bipod shooter with the best group of a session. (Not recommended by me in any way)- I've helped teach Benchrest guys interested in shooting in field conditions; but I have not seen many field guys switch the other way.

If you think most new shooters are migrating to Benchrest, then you defiantly stand on your own. I popped into Coalinga yesterday on my way home to quickly test a zero for a scope and gun that hit the ground hard onto concrete. They were running an across the course BR event; maybe 5 guys shooting; not hugely popular like the Snipers Cup or other events were the registration is filled almost as they are posted, by many that are young. And much like every Benchrest event I seen.. retirement is more closer the norm than new blood.

New shooters need to define and explore their future interests... I often end up seeing people buy things that do not suit their interests as they discover what they want.

Yes, I do believe in situations with multiple targets, AOF, any were you might have a UKD, Long range hunting or were a fast follow up correction will result in more hits is a reason to have a scale in the scope. "If" one buys into that, then the scale needs to be accurate at all ranges.

After I wrapped training this weekend, we let the boys shoot. Do you see a FFP scope on this suppressed system?

Of course it is set up correctly.. for the intended use.


Unfortunately, Lynn you demonstrate over and over that your actually are very unaware of much of the shooting requirements in several growing disciplines and too stubborn to learn.


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[TMB 1]

TMB1
If you take a brand new shooter to the 1000 yard line and let them shoot a Benchrest heavygun most will shoot a 10 inch or smaller 5 shot group. At 100 yards they will shoot 3/8 of an inch or less. Women tend to do better there first time out because believe it or not they listen where men already have it all figured out.

Diver
You really seem to think the FFP scope is the answer to all the world's problems with its subtensions and that there isn't much to shooting Benchrest.
In the real world most Benchrest shooters wouldn't consider your rifles to be very accurate. You need 3.5 inch 5 shot groups at 1000 yards to be in the hunt.
You can go to Sacramento on the 4th Sunday of any month and open a can of whooparse on those guys with those I'll shooting Benchrest rifles who think those lousy SFP scopes are okay and not the latest gadgets to be military sniper Wannabees.

OP
Most shooters I see at the range are better shooters than they give themselves credit for. Bad equipment makes you a bad shooter. Low powered scopes are detrimental to accuracy heavy trigger pulls are detrimental to accuracy and guns shot off of crummy rests that don't fit the stock are detrimental to accuracy.
You can put Alain Prost or Aryton Senna into a Volkswagen beetle but don't expect them to win many titles with it no matter how good they can drive.

I realize you can have a new shooter shooting like that with one of your benchrest heavy guns, but it will take more practice to have them hit a 2" at 100 or 10" at 500 with a 1" factory rifle or even a 1/4" custom built, especially if you take away the bench.


How many wins do you think those drivers in Formula One cars would get in the Baja 500?

Probably won't win, but I think they might have a chance of finishing with a VW Beetle

[LynnJr]

TMB1
The point I was making is you can't shoot small with gear that simply won't allow it to happen.
And yes they would do well in any form of racing given equal equipment.

[glocklife34]

When i first started this thread budget was around $1200, and almost all the recommendation is to get a .308 or a 6.5, and as others say "right equipment" will make you a better shooter. What i did was make a thorough research from different forum other than this thread. And i finally made my decision yesterday and jailed a Ruger Precision Rifle in 6.5cr, i am very happy with my purchase and with help the support of this thread, i learned alot from the knowledge all you guys shared. I have a few rifles but this will be my first bolt action rifle and a beginning to precison shooting. Never been so excited before to try the RPR.

Thank you all for the support and knowledge that you guys shared. Now, im in a search for the right scope for the RPR. My budget drastically went up from 1200 to $2300..=)

[LynnJr]

Lynn,

I have said over and over Benchrest and Belly Benchrest is another thing. (I even apologized for a mistaken cross post) Don't for a minute, put words in my mouth.

I have shot at Folsom with those guys and even seen a bipod shooter with the best group of a session. (Not recommended by me in any way)- I've helped teach Benchrest guys interested in shooting in field conditions; but I have not seen many field guys switch the other way.

If you think most new shooters are migrating to Benchrest, then you defiantly stand on your own. I popped into Coalinga yesterday on my way home to quickly test a zero for a scope and gun that hit the ground hard onto concrete. They were running an across the course BR event; maybe 5 guys shooting; not hugely popular like the Snipers Cup or other events were the registration is filled almost as they are posted, by many that are young. And much like every Benchrest event I seen.. retirement is more closer the norm than new blood.

New shooters need to define and explore their future interests... I often end up seeing people buy things that do not suit their interests as they discover what they want.

Yes, I do believe in situations with multiple targets, AOF, any were you might have a UKD, Long range hunting or were a fast follow up correction will result in more hits is a reason to have a scale in the scope. "If" one buys into that, then the scale needs to be accurate at all ranges.

After I wrapped training this weekend, we let the boys shoot. Do you see a FFP scope on this suppressed system?

Of course it is set up correctly.. for the intended use.

FYI I was not teaching on this type of system; my son was shooting on his own in another area and this was taken just after I wrapped up and when he rejoined us. Yes, his support hand is wrong.


Unfortunately, Lynn you demonstrate over and over that your actually are very unaware of much of the shooting requirements in several growing disciplines and too stubborn to learn.


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Diver
You never find any form or discipline at its highest level with millions of participants. As the accuracy skill and equipment required becomes more and more talent skill and financially based you lose those incapable of achieving the higher goals.
This is exactly why the PRS type matches are very popular today. A guy with a 700 and a custom barrel can compete with a seasoned veteran without embarrassing himself.
There is no such thing as prone Benchrest it sounds like a fun shoot one of the club's is holding.
And you very rarely see shooters at the pinnacle of the sport revert back to boomerangs and sling shots. Evolution moves forward.
But getting back into your realm of shooting you can certainly come out to a URSA match with your son's and teach this old dog how it's done. I like any form of competition shooting be that 22 shotgun or rifle. The only thing I don't shoot too often is pistol due to a bad hand. And yes I own a dozen pistols.
You seemed geared towards every new shooter buying a chassis gun with a FFP scope and using a spotter and subtensions for all there shots.
I don't see all of the shooters in the US of A becoming Sniper Wannabees but I do see the fun factor in it.

[TMB 1]

TMB1
The point I was making is you can't shoot small with gear that simply won't allow it to happen.
And yes they would do well in any form of racing given equal equipment.

The point I was making is a Formula One car isn't going to do well in the Baja 500 no matter the driver.

[diver160651]

Recommendation for beginner

Diver
You never find any form or discipline at its highest level with millions of participants. As the accuracy skill and equipment required becomes more and more talent skill and financially based you lose those incapable of achieving the higher goals.
This is exactly why the PRS type matches are very popular today. A guy with a 700 and a custom barrel can compete with a seasoned veteran without embarrassing himself.
There is no such thing as prone Benchrest it sounds like a fun shoot one of the club's is holding.
And you very rarely see shooters at the pinnacle of the sport revert back to boomerangs and sling shots. Evolution moves forward.
But getting back into your realm of shooting you can certainly come out to a URSA match with your son's and teach this old dog how it's done. I like any form of competition shooting be that 22 shotgun or rifle. The only thing I don't shoot too often is pistol due to a bad hand.

Lynn,

For clarity, I call F class "Belly Benchrest" as they are similar in the course of fire scope requirements etc. I know it is a nickname-/ I am not confused.

Secondly you really have no idea-

It is true that less emphasis is put on the rifle in PRS... if the shooter is not ultra squared away with running the scope, no way is a new shooter able to complete at any level with a "seasoned veteran" that knows how to run their scope using the reticle and manage the cof.

More over, non of this is about competition- while I have certainly sighted competition, I also gave many other long range examples were things other than Benchrest equipment is highly valuable and a better fit.

Again you are talking out your arse. Sadly, you aren't taking your talents and learning..

Enough said.. talking to a wall


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[LynnJr]

F-Class and Benchrest have nothing in common except a centerfire cartridge is used. You can Google both and clue yourself in.
And out to a 1000 yards anybody wanting to compete on a SQUARE RANGE can tape a dope card to there buttstock or chassis. This isn't rocket science like you think it is but since you don't shoot at any matches you might not be aware of that?
Bring your gear bring your spotter and show us how you tune your ballistic program to get hits and impress me.
All I am seeing is keyboard advice without any wins to back up your claims.

[ar15barrels]

Now, im in a search for the right scope for the RPR. My budget drastically went up from 1200 to $2300..=)

Vortex Razor HD Gen II 4.5-27 with the EBR-2C reticle.

[diver160651]

Recommendation for beginner

Lynn your ego will drive you to any length of stupidity to try to make a point -

OP I am sorry- for the above..

I am sure you'll love that RPR.. congratulations

Something, I have not done other than on a few occasions (one was to Lynn -whom never took me up on many invites/nor will I again) is invite you out to shoot Long Range.. PM me if interested.. we can meet at a private long range with a lot of fun options. Bring the RPR ammo a note pad and a FFP. If you really would rather shoot paper we can get you over the pits, but must move to another facility.

Again, PM me if interested.


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[naeco81]

TMB1
If you take a brand new shooter to the 1000 yard line and let them shoot a Benchrest heavygun most will shoot a 10 inch or smaller 5 shot group.

...

OP
Most shooters I see at the range are better shooters than they give themselves credit for. Bad equipment makes you a bad shooter.

Both of these points you made should clearly indicate to you why heavy benchrest shooting lacks popular appeal. Because you've effectively designed a sport that attempts to remove the shooter as much as possible from the equation. By and large you are actively trying to measure internal ballistics only, so sure the rifle matters more in that arena. Who cares? It's primarily a test of equipment, not skill, up to a very significant point as evidenced by your quote.

That's not to say there's no skill involved, certainly the pack separates in some fashion and your faster strings require some disciplined trigger control. My goal is not to put you or JMP down for getting enjoyment out of such shooting. On the contrary, I'm glad you like it and the mere fact you guys effectively test equipment to such precise degrees I believe is good for all of us; in a way you're keeping precision rifle makers honest.

But when you wander into a thread like this one, where OP clearly posted his $1200 budget and desire to shoot at 500m, eventually 1000, I find advice that he's simply priced out isn't very encouraging. Maybe he's priced out of your sport, but not out of marksmanship generally. I think diver said it best in his post I quoted previously about OP clarifying what he wanted to shoot first, but I also think assuming the narrow slice of heavy bench as his goal is very unlikely.

I'd wager most people who are just getting interested in long range shooting are actually interested in field craft because it approximates the sniper action they've seen on TV/movies, and let's face it - that's what the allure is for many starting out. Being able to eventually make cold bore hits at 1000m in real world conditions. That is far more reliant on the shooter and his/her ability to calculate significant variance in external ballistics. It's also more useful for things like hunting, another source of primary appeal. And diver is 100% right about FFP for such practice. An accurate scale throughout your zoom is prerequisite.

Anyways, my point is if you're going to tell someone he can't get into what he wants to try at his budget, I feel like the burden should rest with you to thoroughly explain what limited dimensions you're talking about. The point of this community is to encourage shooters, right?

[HectorEscaton]

Both of these points you made should clearly indicate to you why heavy benchrest shooting lacks popular appeal. Because you've effectively designed a sport that attempts to remove the shooter as much as possible from the equation. By and large you are actively trying to measure internal ballistics only, so sure the rifle matters more in that arena. Who cares? It's primarily a test of equipment, not skill, up to a very significant point as evidenced by your quote.

That's not to say there's no skill involved, certainly the pack separates in some fashion and your faster strings require some disciplined trigger control. My goal is not to put you or JMP down for getting enjoyment out of such shooting. On the contrary, I'm glad you like it and the mere fact you guys effectively test equipment to such precise degrees I believe is good for all of us; in a way you're keeping precision rifle makers honest.

But when you wander into a thread like this one, where OP clearly posted his $1200 budget and desire to shoot at 500m, eventually 1000, I find advice that he's simply priced out isn't very encouraging. Maybe he's priced out of your sport, but not out of marksmanship generally. I think diver said it best in his post I quoted previously about OP clarifying what he wanted to shoot first, but I also think assuming the narrow slice of heavy bench as his goal is very unlikely.

I'd wager most people who are just getting interested in long range shooting are actually interested in field craft because it approximates the sniper action they've seen on TV/movies, and let's face it - that's what the allure is for many starting out. Being able to eventually make cold bore hits at 1000m in real world conditions. That is far more reliant on the shooter and his/her ability to calculate significant variance in external ballistics. It's also more useful for things like hunting, another source of primary appeal. And diver is 100% right about FFP for such practice. An accurate scale throughout your zoom is prerequisite.

Anyways, my point is if you're going to tell someone he can't get into what he wants to try at his budget, I feel like the burden should rest with you to thoroughly explain what limited dimensions you're talking about. The point of this community is to encourage shooters, right?

Well said.

[LynnJr]

I said a new shooter shooting a heavygun at 1000 yards will typically shoot a 10 inch 5 shot group.
In Heavygun class you shoot 10 shot groups not 5 shot groups so the point was if your using good equipment the shooter will do better.
1000 yard Benchrest is often referred to as a reloading duel because your gun has to shoot to win.
You can't throw loads together and expect to do well.
The bag set up and how you fire the rifle are the keys to winning because everyone on the line has a gun capable of shooting to the bullets capability. The bullets capability being a huge part of the game.

As to the original poster I think I responded first that he should get a 700?
I say that because I own a dozen of them mostly highly upgraded and they are the best non custom route for any new shooter to take. It is there upgradeability which makes them the number one choice of aftermarket suppliers.
The OP bought a Ruger and I am positive he will like the rifle. I have one in 243 that shoots very well.

I will now go out on a limb and challenge Diver to a 2000 yard match were he can shoot anything he has and I will shoot a Remington 700 in get this a cartridge loaded with less than 34 grains of powder. Best out of 10 is the winner.
It's not ego it's called confidence.