Recommendation for beginner

[Horrendo Revolver]

Vanguard S2.

[LynnJr]

So 2 pages in now and the $350 Remington ADL or SPS is still your best choice for your intended goals.
If you don't like the 700 platform you can sell the action alone for what you paid for the entire rifle.
If you want to go to a 6.5 or 308 you can use the same action by switching the bolt which is $130 new from Pacific Tool and you can sell or keep your old bolt. If you sell it sell it on eBay and you will actually make money in the deal.
As a matter of fact you can make it a SAUM or WSM as well.

Yes most of my rifles are heavy but the rules allow for heavy rifles and I always try to follow the rules.
The advantages to a heavy rifle are less recoil less gun jump less muzzle rise less disruption in the rest faster tracker less heat in the barrel better accuracy and on and on and on.
Use the rules to your advantage.

[JMP]

Just from personal experience, my first bolt action rifle was a Savage in 308. I wasn't even planning on buying it, but it was so damn cheap I figured how could I go wrong? The salesman told me that I made a very good choice as it was the best "value". I was pretty happy with myself.

Then, I took it out to the range, and I couldn't hit ****. Some other nice folks let me try their rifles, which seemed to shoot fine. I promptly remedied the problem by getting a couple of different rifles in both 223 and 308, and it was all downhill from there. Even so, I've had to go through more iterations since.

Personally, I'd recommend for people who plan on making a serious, but uniformed decision to simply start with an Accuracy International. They are one maker that does not make any sub-par equipment. It is one of the very few rifles that you buy and don't have the need or want to start upgrading parts. I believe the short actions are now only available in 308 (but you can easily change cartridges by screwing on an aftermarket barrel). If you start that way, you automatically eliminate one variable in your shooting--the rifle. Some people that take a short-sighted view perceive them to be too expensive. But, in actuality, it'll probably save you a few iterations of purchases. Further, you'll waste a whole lot less ammo trying to figure out what's wrong with your gun.

Except for the occasional (perhaps more than occasional) high priced gimmick, I've found that you pretty much get what you pay for. Since you are posting from Brentwood, I am assuming your budget has some wiggle room. You can either pay more now, or pay a lot more later. That's how it works with bolt rifles.

[ar15barrels]

Since you are posting from Brentwood, I am assuming your budget has some wiggle room.

There is more than one Brentwood...

[TMB 1]

Just from personal experience, my first bolt action rifle was a Savage in 308. I wasn't even planning on buying it, but it was so damn cheap I figured how could I go wrong? The salesman told me that I made a very good choice as it was the best "value". I was pretty happy with myself.

Then, I took it out to the range, and I couldn't hit ****. Some other nice folks let me try their rifles, which seemed to shoot fine. I promptly remedied the problem by getting a couple of different rifles in both 223 and 308, and it was all downhill from there. Even so, I've had to go through more iterations since.

Weird the Savage wouldn't shoot. What model was it?

My first bolt action centerfire was a Remington 660 in 6mm, the second bolt action centerfire was a Savage 110E in 7mm both tack drivers.

[tacticalcity]

Remington 700 SPS Tactical or Varmint or AAC is a good option for a beginner. The barreled action is just as good as their most expensive models. Difference is a less expensive stock and finish. Down the road, if you become a fanatic like the rest of us, you can upgrade the stock, upgrade the trigger, and even get a fancy paint job if you want. Until then you still have a GREAT shooting gun.

However, if you are dead set on 223 I would go with the Mossberg MVP line instead. In the past couple years Mossberg has released some great options in their MVP line. They've got so many different options that it makes your head spin. All at very affordable prices. All seriously sexy rifles.

I'm not a beginner. But either of those sound like a great addition to my own collection.

As for people suggesting you go the .308 route...they are doing that because .223 is more suited to and associated with the semi-auto world of an AR15/M4 rifle. Bolt action translates to ACCURACY OVER SPEED. Where are .223 is more suited to speed than accuracy when compared one on one with .308. No question .223 is cheaper. But .308 is better suited to long range shooting.

That said, there are plenty of .223 bolt action rifles out there. They fill the mid-range to intermediate range type of shooting. And if you go that route the Mossberg MVP line has some seriously sexy options. Personally I would get one of those. Later, if you decide to pick up an AR or two, you'll only have to stock up on one caliber or rifle ammo. And the MVP line uses the same magazines as the AR (I think). So there are perks to going that route as well.

No matter what, you'll end up with a fun gun to shoot.

http://www.mossberg.com/category/series/mvp-series/

[JMP]

There is more than one Brentwood...

Thank you, I googled it, and learned something today--never been to that Brentwood, but it still looks pretty nice if you want to pay a few million less for a house.

Weird the Savage wouldn't shoot. What model was it?

My first bolt action centerfire was a Remington 660 in 6mm, the second bolt action centerfire was a Savage 110E in 7mm both tack drivers.

I don't remember. I do remember about a 7lb trigger pull and the clunkiest action compared to all the other bolt action rifles at the range. I understand that there are many Savage fans. I simply do not like the rifles. I've shot new higher end Savages, and I don't like them either.

[naeco81]

Just from personal experience, my first bolt action rifle was a Savage in 308. I wasn't even planning on buying it, but it was so damn cheap I figured how could I go wrong? The salesman told me that I made a very good choice as it was the best "value". I was pretty happy with myself.

Then, I took it out to the range, and I couldn't hit ****. Some other nice folks let me try their rifles, which seemed to shoot fine. I promptly remedied the problem by getting a couple of different rifles in both 223 and 308, and it was all downhill from there. Even so, I've had to go through more iterations since.

Personally, I'd recommend for people who plan on making a serious, but uniformed decision to simply start with an Accuracy International. They are one maker that does not make any sub-par equipment. It is one of the very few rifles that you buy and don't have the need or want to start upgrading parts. I believe the short actions are now only available in 308 (but you can easily change cartridges by screwing on an aftermarket barrel). If you start that way, you automatically eliminate one variable in your shooting--the rifle. Some people that take a short-sighted view perceive them to be too expensive. But, in actuality, it'll probably save you a few iterations of purchases. Further, you'll waste a whole lot less ammo trying to figure out what's wrong with your gun.

Except for the occasional (perhaps more than occasional) high priced gimmick, I've found that you pretty much get what you pay for. Since you are posting from Brentwood, I am assuming your budget has some wiggle room. You can either pay more now, or pay a lot more later. That's how it works with bolt rifles.

lol wtf
Don't get me wrong, Accuracy International makes exceptionally fine products but suggesting a $5-7k rifle to someone with a budget of $1200 for rifle & optic is just ridiculous. Even the idea you need such expensive kit to reach 1000m+ is completely untethered from reality. Your Savage 308 would have been fine with proper bedding unless you got a really unlucky example that the manufacturer should have sorted. Any of the modern choices, 700 for example, are good to go for 500-1000m shooting easily. Good advice would be to put as much of that $1200 budget toward the optic as possible.

The rifle itself is extremely low on the list of reasons why people are off target, so spending excessively to correct that problem just doesn't make logical sense. TC Compass guarantees sub-MOA and actually delivers about 1/2 minute for less than $300. I honestly can't tell if your post was trolling, but I assume you had good intentions here.

[TMB 1]

I don't remember. I do remember about a 7lb trigger pull and the clunkiest action compared to all the other bolt action rifles at the range. I understand that there are many Savage fans. I simply do not like the rifles. I've shot new higher end Savages, and I don't like them either.

7lb trigger, must of been the lawyer safe model that they made between their old adjustable triggers and their new accu triggers. My old 110 has a pretty slick action and pre accutrigger set a little under 3lb. Now you have me wanting to get a new Savage so I can see how slick they are compared to my old Savages

Mossberg MVP was a little clunky when I first got it but it's better now and works good.

I'm a fan of about anything that works good especially if it's made in the USA.

[JMP]

lol wtf
Don't get me wrong, Accuracy International makes exceptionally fine products but suggesting a $5-7k rifle to someone with a budget of $1200 for rifle & optic is just ridiculous. Even the idea you need such expensive kit to reach 1000m+ is completely untethered from reality. Your Savage 308 would have been fine with proper bedding unless you got a really unlucky example that the manufacturer should have sorted. Any of the modern choices, 700 for example, are good to go for 500-1000m shooting easily. Good advice would be to put as much of that $1200 budget toward the optic as possible.

The rifle itself is extremely low on the list of reasons why people are off target, so spending excessively to correct that problem just doesn't make logical sense. TC Compass guarantees sub-MOA and actually delivers about 1/2 minute for less than $300. I honestly can't tell if your post was trolling, but I assume you had good intentions here.

I understand that I have a minority opinion, but it is an opinion that I stand by. There seems to an exist some weird right of passage in the rifle world where novice shooters should use crappy gear and learn their way up. My believe is 100% contrary to this notion.

Then, I hear this ridiculous $7k talk. We aren't talking about the Lapua Magnum or 50 BMG.

http://www.eurooptic.com/AT-PBFI308-BL24P-SP-Accuracy-International-AT-Rifle-Fixed-Pa.aspx

That's a good 308 with a 24" barrel for $4k, which probably means you can get it for $3,600. How much is the ultimate cost of a tricked out R700 or other R700 pattern rifle? It costs about the same. In the end, folks will realize that it costs much more to shoot and maintain a rifle than the rifle itself. The problem I have with the R700 type route is that beginners will not know how to shop to get their parts and rifle built.

I do not want people to be fooled into thinking they can do great with very little money. For just $1,200, you can either get yourself set up for reloading the cartridge or get a few cases of ammo. Personally, I do not want to spend money on quality components and an afternoon making ammo for it to go down a crap barrel. Either way, you still don't even have a gun or a scope yet. Also, to shoot at good places, it requires time and driving. The last I checked, gasoline isn't getting much cheaper unless you move to Arizona.

If you truly need to shoot a centerfire bolt rifle on the strictest possible budget, then I would advise a Mosin Nagant and a crate of milsurp ammo. You can also get a decent .22lr like an Anschutz 64 for less than $1,200.

Bolt action rifles have a great advantage for long distance and accurate/precise shooting. If you do not want to capitalize on this great benefit, why not just stick with an AR or something similar???

It has nothing to do with elitism, but more about long term thinking. It also has a lot to do with priorities. You will not see me with a $1,000 iPhone X as I opt for the $150 phone that accomplishes all I ask of it.

[JMP]

7lb trigger, must of been the lawyer safe model that they made between their old adjustable triggers and their new accu triggers. My old 110 has a pretty slick action and pre accutrigger set a little under 3lb. Now you have me wanting to get a new Savage so I can see how slick they are compared to my old Savages

Yep, I am pretty sure that's the trigger I had. The Accutrigger is infinitely better, and it is also better than the R700 XMP trigger. There are many people that feel strongly that the trigger is not relevant with good shooter fundamentals. I agree to a certain level, but I still have a picky preference for triggers.

I simply find the design of Savage rifles to seem like Rube Goldberg instruments, trigger, bolt, and all.

[TMB 1]

I simply find the design of Savage rifles to seem like Rube Goldberg instruments, trigger, bolt, and all.

Yeah, Savage has been all over the place in their designs, but they are responsible for many of the receiver/action/trigger designs we have today.

[naeco81]

I do not want people to be fooled into thinking they can do great with very little money.

Except they absolutely can; that you couldn't doesn't mean it isn't possible. There are tons of folks on CG who shoot cheap production rifles exceptionally well. Like I said, the rifle itself is extremely low on the list of reasons why people are off target. If you are a serious long distance shooter then you know this to be true.

[LynnJr]

I tend to agree with everything JMP posted. If you have the money buy the best equipment and shorten the learning curve.
When most shooters shoot my rifles they generally shoot the smallest groups they will EVER shoot.
That said if you haven't hit the lotto get the most upgradable platform made and piece meal yourself up the ladder.

[hardlyworking]

That said if you haven't hit the lotto get the most upgradable platform made and piece meal yourself up the ladder.

Agreeing here ^^

If you get the Rem700 that Lynn mentioned in any caliber with a .473 bolt face, short action you can shoot SO many calibers (358 win, 338 fed, 308, 7-08, 6.5CM, 6.5x47, 6CM, 6x47, 243, 22-250) probably a bunch I missed.

If you wanted stick with .223 bullets for some reason the 22-250 can put them to work. .243 is a very highly regarded light recoiling but serious use cartridge.

Get your self an upgradable action/bolt and your rifle will grow with you.