Recommendation for beginner

[Hoffer]

You guys will never out maneuver Lynn. He is extraordinarily normal. In fact he scored an A and a B in testing at a local university. He has paperwork to show he is AB normal. I think he has a trophy somewhere for it.

As for a good 223 rifle for long distance on a budget stick with the AB normal guy.

[diver160651]

https://forum.snipershide.com/forum/sniper%C2%92s-hide[emoji768]-forward-operating-base/sniper-s-hide-d-i-y/6283948-elr-target-camera-2-camera-system-with-integrated-dvr#post6291944

[LynnJr]

Diver
Jim you don't shoot at matches. Going out in the desert with a buddy or your son is called target practice.
I know this because I actually run sanctioned matches monthly.
YOU DON'T.
I also know after 43 years of competitive shooting about someone pegging my BS meter and Jim you do just that.
You then go on to say I only know about Benchrest.
I have enclosed some pictures that will help the internet viewers see my credibility versus your complete lack of credibility.
The photos show a national title a 2.284 inch 10 shot group that you will never duplicate at half the distance. A couple belt buckles I won with my shotguns including two California titles and my name in the Team Calfee book as an advisor. And just so you don't have to look him up because I know you don't know who he is he is the greatest living 22 gunsmith on the planet.
I would tell you to kiss my arse but the climb up the ladder would most likely give you a nose bleed.
Only on the internet could someone with so little knowledge post they no more than somebody who actually has that knowledge.
I have forgotten more about guns than you will ever know and I have put more rounds downrange than you have ever seen.
I sued Folsom gun range after they cheated my 83 year old father out of a Nightforce scope. Those are more your kind of people than mine and you never stood a chance at being one of our match directors. I have been in it since it's inception and believe me after reading your letter about the property you never stood a chance.

[TMB 1]

Most of the times when he brings up his bench guns, it is taking about quality and new shooters shooting them good, as he pointed out to me in this thread.

This thread did start out as 200-500 yards then turned to 100-300 yards. Might be tactical but not really long range.

[diver160651]

Actually you should work on your patience, because if you read LynnJr across the board. He knows a lot and you might learn something.

Granted, he does have a lot of knowledge in areas. I have not ever intentionally questioned (I did in a cross post by mistake and apologized) his advise on Benchrest or his wiliness to swap out barrels and build his own 100lbs guns… etc. Honesty, that's part of the reason I responded to Oscar's request for help and a couple of years ago when he reached out me out from Snipers Hide and asked for advice on a couple of things. Oscar, is the guy that started Unlimited Range Shooters Association (URSA) - as seen in Lynn's signature.

My point is very specific to field shooting (tactical long range) advice.. I try to stay in my lane, it would be better if he did too.

[TMB 1]

Lynn, again it is very sad, I really have no more patience for you; but people should be very aware that in some areas you'll make recommendations, often having no idea what you're talking about.

Actually you should work on your patience, because if you read LynnJr across the board. He knows a lot and you might learn something.

[diver160651]

Post #38 is the first mention of Benchrest and the poster mentioning it is always the same bitter guy.
If you notice the original post was about 200-500 and a 223 until that same poster kept arguing with everyone about 1000 yards and beyond.
Nothing new.

You are correct Lynn, - this is what eventually I responded to as it was in the OPs original post in the opening sentence.

I want to start mid range shooting 200-500 yards and eventually long range precision around 1000 yards plus. < snip>
Thank you in advance.

Besides to your earlier point about not getting invited back to event or matches, that never been an issue for me; But isn't it you that is actually banned from Folsom and been asked to not come back to events?

I almost always have tried to give you credit like when you make a good recommendation like maybe the 700 when you started out, but on the other hand, I am willing to toss out the BS flag.

You think I am a bad dude, because I've called you on your crap, several times. From recommending low travel, scopes with duplex reticles for ELR and off the range, to using a bench gun for a field-gun. When questioned, or called out, you always pull the same old crap.

Lynn, again it is very sad, I really have no more patience for you; but people should be very aware that in some areas you'll make recommendations, often having no idea what you're talking about.

[LynnJr]

Post #38 is the first mention of Benchrest and the poster mentioning it is always the same bitter guy.
If you notice the original post was about 200-500 and a 223 until that same poster kept arguing with everyone about 1000 yards and beyond.
Nothing new.

[JMP]

That is a SMOKIN DEAL!!!
Also nice to know that S&B upped their warranty.

I just switched from a gen2 razor to a minox ZP5....all I can say is I'll only shoot German glass as long as I can afford it from this point on and I wish ida just ponied up the extra and bought euro glass long ago.


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EuroOptic is have a moving sale so there are tons of great deals on really nice stuff.

[JMP]

I get that you had good intentions, but making it clear your perspective was constrained to bench shooting would have saved this thread a lot of posts, and probably been more useful to OP. I'm guilty of making assumptions too btw, see the post diver made in response to mine where I quoted him after

Yes you are presumptive; I don't own a single benchrest gun. To provide you with a better understanding of how it works, you must first understand that a bolt rifle is only as good as its barrel. To get a good barrel, it generally costs at least $600 for the blank and installation. I think it's easiest for beginners to start off with a complete rifle that shoots out of the box. There are only a few companies I trust to buy a complete rifle and know that I am getting a good barrel. These companies use good material and fit the rifles by hand so they are never going to be cheap. The majority of factory rifles are put together on an assembly line and fit together with gauges. Then, you get loose tolerances, and you start stacking loose tolerances; this results in a less predictable product.

Please keep in mind that I am speaking of my own opinion, and I'd not force it on anybody. It is an opinion formed based on hindsight knowledge of what I would have done differently.

I will also note that the firearms industry can be a very very dishonest market. My opinions will frequently differ from conventional wisdom; however, I do not carry any financial stake in what people choose to use. I also do not make any decisions based on information provided to me by those with a financial interest. You will see glowing reviews of certain products on the internet. However, you might not fall for the hype if you knew that the reviewer was getting a financial incentive (most commonly free gear). Is anyone still gullible enough to really believe a word Frank G says about a product? And, some of the YouTubers, just wow!

[longrange1]

I'd get this.

http://www.eurooptic.com/schmidt-bender-pmii-5-25x56-l-p-p4-fine-mrad-dt-ccw.aspx

SMOKING DEAL. That's the model I favor throughout the entire Schmidt line, brand new, $2,500, hard to beat that.

That is a SMOKIN DEAL!!!
Also nice to know that S&B upped their warranty.

I just switched from a gen2 razor to a minox ZP5....all I can say is I'll only shoot German glass as long as I can afford it from this point on and I wish ida just ponied up the extra and bought euro glass long ago.


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[naeco81]

That's fair. Sorry if I characterized you that way JMP.

[diver160651]

Yeah that's great

Still doesn't get him to even a rifle at your first suggestion. I think you missed my larger point, which is just trying to be encouraging to new shooters rather than dismissive. I get that you had good intentions, but making it clear your perspective was constrained to bench shooting would have saved this thread a lot of posts, and probably been more useful to OP. I'm guilty of making assumptions too btw, see the post diver made in response to mine where I quoted him after



Either way glad he's got a rifle & has increased his budget to support a proper scope. Hope you enjoy OP!

Good points, but I don't think it was JMP that kept bringing it back to the Benchrest stuff.




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[naeco81]

$2,300 budget, keep up with the thread. The OP is clearly smarter than you give him credit. He understood the merits of making a larger investment. Smart people don't buy based on budget; they buy based on value and utility--$1,200 was just the opening bid to feel the water. $2,300 is now a workable budget.

Yeah that's great
Still doesn't get him to even a rifle at your first suggestion. I think you missed my larger point, which is just trying to be encouraging to new shooters rather than dismissive. I get that you had good intentions, but making it clear your perspective was constrained to bench shooting would have saved this thread a lot of posts, and probably been more useful to OP. I'm guilty of making assumptions too btw, see the post diver made in response to mine where I quoted him after

Either way glad he's got a rifle & has increased his budget to support a proper scope. Hope you enjoy OP!

[LynnJr]

Lynn,

Look back in your personal emails (not PMs on this site), you'll find many, most including Oscar. If you can't or don't remember them, ask Oscar; I am sure he does. BTW, that would be around the time period Oscar asked me to help you guys will ELR information and locations.

So let's forget about the out of state areas, the suppressor picture was here in California. I shoot a lot in CA, CA is were I live as you know.

I included you to shoot a field match here in California so that you might better understand what we are talking about..that was my reference. Yes, I did also offer also have you shoot ELR in Nevada.. and sometimes it was short notice.

But, none of the invites were a posing match- but an attempt to help you.

I've even publicly praised your willingness to let others join you new ELR adventures. So I just don't get your game....

I hope that refreshes your memory.

Again, I have no idea we're this 2,00o yard crap challenge is coming from.. it is pale. Non-of the chest pounding would make a new shooter or a season shooter new to a new discipline feel welcome.

I think it is time just to stay away from you.. pissing on my leg isn't something I want, nor would I ever want to be down range, or handling weapons systems next to someone with that temperament and twisted ego.











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Diver
The only emails I received two years ago were you asking Oscar to rent a ranch near Coalinga where you hunt pigs and some GPS co-ordinates from Nevada.
The facts remain unchanged that you have never shot in one of our long-range matches or anyone elses that anyone is aware of.
I suspect given your open hostility you don't get invited or invited back after your first visit.
I do wish you good luck with any shooting that you might/might not do away from the keyboard.
I already knew you wouldn't show up at an organised match.