General precision gun setup

[ar15barrels]

So, for precision reloading, single stage presses are the only way to go, I take it.

I use a single stage for sizing and an arbor press for seating.
Seating in hand dies on an arbor press gives you a MUCH better feel of the consistency in bullet pull.
Set the rounds aside that are abnormal and use them for positional and practice.

[LynnJr]

Progressive presses are made for bulk reloaders.
To win matches where you will be firing fewer than 200 rounds they have no advantage and a lot of disadvantages.

And GM is still making Top Engine Cleaner last time I checked.

[jrpowell3]

Progressive presses are made for bulk reloaders.
To win matches where you will be firing fewer than 200 rounds they have no advantage and a lot of disadvantages.

And GM is still making Top Engine Cleaner last time I checked.

If you do one round at a time in a progressive press, what are the disadvantages?

[longrange1]

You can use a progressive but for your match ammo I'd only use it for seating.

And like Randal said an arbor press and a hand die make nice straight ammo and makes it easier to feel odd neck tensions.

The reloading and accuracy hole is deep depending on how far you want to chase it and how far you chase it will depend on what type of shooting you settle on.


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[ar15barrels]

If you do one round at a time in a progressive press, what are the disadvantages?

Press frame deflection inconsistency due to brass hardness variation.

[bsumoba]

In defense of progressive presses used for precision ammo, there are many that use a Dillon 550. There is a family in AZ that uses one with a Prometheus Gen II and they seem to load great ammo; ammo that is good enough for the wife to just set a pending women's 1,000 yard 20-shot string record a few weeks ago with a 200-13X. I have the article if someone wants it. The reason they use it is because there are 4-5 people in the family that shoot nearly every weekend so you can imagine the amount of ammo they go through.

If you are just a single shooter, then a progressive does not seem necessary. The way they get around it is the set up has floating heads for the dies, and they use a Prometheus because they felt comfortable with its precision to the kernel in 7-9 seconds. Quite an expensive unit though...

[longrange1]

Progressive presses are made for bulk reloaders.

To win matches where you will be firing fewer than 200 rounds they have no advantage and a lot of disadvantages.



And GM is still making Top Engine Cleaner last time I checked.

Not the same as the original TEC...the original TEC was discontinued several years ago.


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[FourT6and2]

Boretech Carbon along with the Copper is the best I've used. I've "wipe'd out" my barrel and left it soaking for 12+ hours, along the way, adding more in there with a nylon brush (trying to minimize the scrubbing effect to see whether or not you can truly put it in the bore and let the chemicals do its thing). After doing that then patching it out, I used some Boretech products and man did I lose confidence in the wipe out stuff really quickly.

Now, I use wipe out to get the bulk of the stuff out of my bore, then finish with the bore tech stuff to save that solvent.

Bryan, you scoped my barrel remember?

All I use is Bore-Tech Eliminator and cotton patches. No brushes. Nothing else. I run a few wet patches down the barrel, then dry patches until they come out clean and dry. Done. No soaking for hours at a time. Takes about 20 minutes to clean my rifle. And I only clean once accuracy starts to go down the toilet, which has been about 350 rounds or so. I previously used mPro7. But Bore-Tech seems to work better and also works on copper.

[LynnJr]

FourT6and2
If I cleaned your barrel right after you cleaned your barrel the patches would come out black.

Yes the Too Engine Cleaner is the GM 88 number but in California we have no choice. You can get sea foam from O'Reilly's.

Yes you can use a progressive press like that family Bryan mentions but you need to do it just like they are doing it.
You load 2000 rounds at a time and shoot the ones that gauge correctly and the other 1500+ rounds are used for practice.
Team Lapua seats all there match rounds within 0.001 on bullet seating with a comparator. If you have the brass primers and bullets handy load up 5000 rounds and shoot the ones were everything meets the 0.001 spec on the shoulder bump and seating depth.
If not use a single stage and use 90+% of all your loaded ammo.
The whole story matters.

[LynnJr]

http://paceperformance.com/i-6485867...container.html

Here is the new Top Engine Cleaner for the carbon. The picture shows the ammonia.
Note if you use this ammonia on a chromoly barrel you have to oil it to prevent etching.

[longrange1]

Lynn does that stuff compare to the original?


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[FourT6and2]

FourT6and2
If I cleaned your barrel right after you cleaned your barrel the patches would come out black.

Like I said, Bryan bore scoped my barrel right after I cleaned it. It was clean. Are you seriously trying to start an argument about who can clean a barrel better?

[bsumoba]

Like I said, Bryan bore scoped my barrel right after I cleaned it. It was clean. Are you seriously trying to start an argument about who can clean a barrel better?

Mike, honestly I was only looking to see if it was coppered up, which it was not because you mentioned that the groups started to open up. Was it down to bare metal, which I am guessing is what most guys right now are talking about when they say cleaning? Probably not and I say probably because I am not 100% sure anymore. There was no indication of firecracking or heavy throat erosion either in your barrel nor did I see uneven wear on your lands.

When I clean, I honestly do not think I even get it down to bare metal without really scrubbing it hard with a bronze brush and solvent OR use a combination of JB and Kroil. My main goal is to get 90% of the carbon and 100% of the copper. After about 200-300 rounds, I will then go down to bare metal and get it super and really get that hard carbon out of the grooves.

[milotrain]

1. I use a progressive for my match ammo but I shoot service rifle.
2. Jim O'Connell uses a chargemaster, when I'm shooting a discipline that has a smaller target than he shoots I'll use something else. Although I don't own an automatic powder system so I might just start with the autotrickler and an A&D scale.
3. Longrange, F-class, PRS are all very different disciplines. They have some overlaps but if they overlapped as much as people thought then the winners in each would all be the same. They take a different mentality and a different set of skills.
4. I love the idea of custom dies that match a chamber reamer that I own but I'd never bother with custom dies on a stock barrel.
5. I used to use the wipeout products until I got a borescope, now I use Montana. Haven't tried boretech. My scores haven't gone up so I can't say it's a bonus in accuracy but again... service rifle.

If you are just a single shooter, then a progressive does not seem necessary.

With respect, that may be true if you get to mount glass on your rifle and have it supported mechanically. The service rifle and the prone rifle are about round count because they are shot in position and you have to work your position with rounds down range. In that case I'll take a 550 and a midrange target for the bulk of my practice over making "real 1k match" loads for every range trip.

[jrpowell3]

1. I use a progressive for my match ammo but I shoot service rifle.
2. Jim O'Connell uses a chargemaster, when I'm shooting a discipline that has a smaller target than he shoots I'll use something else. Although I don't own an automatic powder system so I might just start with the autotrickler and an A&D scale.
3. Longrange, F-class, PRS are all very different disciplines. They have some overlaps but if they overlapped as much as people thought then the winners in each would all be the same. They take a different mentality and a different set of skills.
4. I love the idea of custom dies that match a chamber reamer that I own but I'd never bother with custom dies on a stock barrel.
5. I used to use the wipeout products until I got a borescope, now I use Montana. Haven't tried boretech. My scores haven't gone up so I can't say it's a bonus in accuracy but again... service rifle.


With respect, that may be true if you get to mount glass on your rifle and have it supported mechanically. The service rifle and the prone rifle are about round count because they are shot in position and you have to work your position with rounds down range. In that case I'll take a 550 and a midrange target for the bulk of my practice over making "real 1k match" loads for every range trip.

My shooting background honestly lends better to high power, not f-class, but I want to get into both, I don't see why the two disciplines would be mutually exclusive, so, I assume I'd be reloading for both.