Bolt action battle rifles

[mikeyr]

.
16" barrel Ruger Gunsite Scout .308 - 3, 5 or 10-rd detachable box mags. Factory ghost ring irons make center hits on 100 yd 12" steel easy as pie, offhand. Don't sweat the 150 fps loss from an 18 incher. This rifle is both light(er) and surprisingly soft-shooting for .308. 100% reliable.

7 more days until I get mine out of jail !!!

To be specific, 7 days 1 hour 24 minutes (when I press the submit button) not that I am counting or anything.

[mj1]

[RNE228]

Remington has for decades(since 1912)

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-7600/model-7600.aspx

http://www.chuckhawks.com/remington_760_7600_rifles.htm

How about a pump .308. Ares?

[smle-man]

A pump or lever action will cycle faster. If you want a fast cycling bolt action, a straight pull might be the way to go.

My pump 760 carbine is fast and accurate. The only limitation is the 4 round detachable magazine. I've tried 10 round magazines in it with inconsistent reliability. The updated version of the 760 is the 7600. Gunbroker is loaded with 760s at reasonable prices. The Texas Rangers carried the 760 carbine as their trunk gun for many years.

[23 Blast]

I really like the looks of the FR8.

Strange though, that they made them with a straight bolt handle instead of bent. I've heard that fingers can get pinched between the bolt handle and tall rear sight while cycling.

[mls343]

Nice, MJ!

Probably the ultimate definition of a scout rifle before there was even a scout rifle concept. Love the fireballs on that one too!

[mj1]

[lowandslow]

Merry Christmas! Been following this thread - some interesting and thought provoking ideas. OK, some food for thought about how I have looked at manual action battle and/or SHTF rifles. Please remember - these are my opinions and observations. In no way shape or form are these thoughts meant to be absolute or comprehensive.

1) Common cost effective ammo. Lets just say I procure lots of ammo for different gun clubs and shooting groups and have seen inventory and price per round vary all over the place. Unless you reload, when "something happens" in the USA you will want to be in a common caliber. And even if you reload, the sharing of ammo becomes really important. One rifle in .303 and one in .308 will have less operational leverage vs both having .308. Cost is a factor for both training and procurement/stockpiling.

2) Rugged rifles. I have this adage that if things get challenging, running to your local store to get cleaning supplies will be near impossible. Windex and Mobil 1 may be some of the only options. Rifles that are inherently rugged and capable of firing 500-1,000 rounds between cleaning start to have an advantage.

3) Realistic distances and barrier capability. In discussion with numerous friends way smarter than me (an HRT team leader, a Marine Corps senior tactical operations trainer, etc) they fully believe in your typical modern day battle/SHTF environment 100-150 yards is the Max range to worry about. In fact most of them believe that 50-100 yards will be the urban/surburban training distance of choice. Barriers may be an issue so bullet weight and design starts to become a factor. Distances over 400 yards are much less common and require a different type of training and to a certain extent - equipment.

Of course there are a ton of other factors but these are a big deal.

So with that in mind, I selected two calibers. .308 and 38/357. Both are .30 caliber rounds, both are capable of a lot of bullet momentum, both are extremely available. Do I have .223/5.56 bolts? You bet I do. But let me come back to that.

For a battle rifle, I prefer a barrel length of 16" - 18.5". Easier to handle, plenty of energy out of them. Accuracy for the ranges listed is totally fine, MOA or better is typical.

Without going into too many details here is what I have picked:

Ruger Gunsite in .308 with an XS extended rail/ghost ring rear sight. Scope is a Nikon Monarch 2-8 Nikoplex with removable rings.

Mossberg MVP 18.5" medium bull barrel in .308 with the UTG Picatinny rail and a Weaver Tactical 2-10. Pmags are perfect in these.

Ruger 77/357 Stainless with a Weaver Grand Slam 1.5-5. This is paired with a Ruger 4" stainless GP100. Love that combo.

Runner ups:

Marlin 1894cp 357 16.25" lever. A neat rifle, shoots great but believe it or not I can shoot the 77/357 faster and more consistently. Swapping mags for me is a lot easier than reloading via the loading gate. I practice with both, the 77/357 works better for me.

Mossberg MVP 18.5" .223/5.56 with a UTG Picatinny rail and a Nikon Monarch 2.5-10 Nikoplex. Now this is a COOL rifle and I would not hesitate to use it. OK, so maybe this one sneaks in especially using 62 - 77 grain rounds.

Notice a theme? I do NOT use BDC, Mildot or other ranging reticles. All rifles have been zeroed to have an MPBR past 225 yards with a +/- 3" rise/fall. My varmint rifles use +/- 1.5" but these are not varmint rifles... ;-). Battle and SHTF rifles require fast acquisition and no thinking. Point and shoot.

All rifles have had some tweaking (triggers, action work, etc) and all work very smoothly.

.308, 38/357, and .223/5.56 ammo is pretty much world wide. That makes me feel much better! 7.62x39 is out there as well but manual action choices are much more limited.

OK, sorry to write so much. Happy New Year to all! And do not forget that given ammo is readily available - "Buy cheap, stack deep".

[mj1]

Don't over think this

[kygen]

Very nice summation

Merry Christmas! Been following this thread - some interesting and thought provoking ideas. OK, some food for thought about how I have looked at manual action battle and/or SHTF rifles. Please remember - these are my opinions and observations. In no way shape or form are these thoughts meant to be absolute or comprehensive.

1) Common cost effective ammo. Lets just say I procure lots of ammo for different gun clubs and shooting groups and have seen inventory and price per round vary all over the place. Unless you reload, when "something happens" in the USA you will want to be in a common caliber. And even if you reload, the sharing of ammo becomes really important. One rifle in .303 and one in .308 will have less operational leverage vs both having .308. Cost is a factor for both training and procurement/stockpiling.

2) Rugged rifles. I have this adage that if things get challenging, running to your local store to get cleaning supplies will be near impossible. Windex and Mobil 1 may be some of the only options. Rifles that are inherently rugged and capable of firing 500-1,000 rounds between cleaning start to have an advantage.

3) Realistic distances and barrier capability. In discussion with numerous friends way smarter than me (an HRT team leader, a Marine Corps senior tactical operations trainer, etc) they fully believe in your typical modern day battle/SHTF environment 100-150 yards is the Max range to worry about. In fact most of them believe that 50-100 yards will be the urban/surburban training distance of choice. Barriers may be an issue so bullet weight and design starts to become a factor. Distances over 400 yards are much less common and require a different type of training and to a certain extent - equipment.

Of course there are a ton of other factors but these are a big deal.

So with that in mind, I selected two calibers. .308 and 38/357. Both are .30 caliber rounds, both are capable of a lot of bullet momentum, both are extremely available. Do I have .223/5.56 bolts? You bet I do. But let me come back to that.

For a battle rifle, I prefer a barrel length of 16" - 18.5". Easier to handle, plenty of energy out of them. Accuracy for the ranges listed is totally fine, MOA or better is typical.

Without going into too many details here is what I have picked:

Ruger Gunsite in .308 with an XS extended rail/ghost ring rear sight. Scope is a Nikon Monarch 2-8 Nikoplex with removable rings.

Mossberg MVP 18.5" medium bull barrel in .308 with the UTG Picatinny rail and a Weaver Tactical 2-10. Pmags are perfect in these.

Ruger 77/357 Stainless with a Weaver Grand Slam 1.5-5. This is paired with a Ruger 4" stainless GP100. Love that combo.

Runner ups:

Marlin 1894cp 357 16.25" lever. A neat rifle, shoots great but believe it or not I can shoot the 77/357 faster and more consistently. Swapping mags for me is a lot easier than reloading via the loading gate. I practice with both, the 77/357 works better for me.

Mossberg MVP 18.5" .223/5.56 with a UTG Picatinny rail and a Nikon Monarch 2.5-10 Nikoplex. Now this is a COOL rifle and I would not hesitate to use it. OK, so maybe this one sneaks in especially using 62 - 77 grain rounds.

Notice a theme? I do NOT use BDC, Mildot or other ranging reticles. All rifles have been zeroed to have an MPBR past 225 yards with a +/- 3" rise/fall. My varmint rifles use +/- 1.5" but these are not varmint rifles... ;-). Battle and SHTF rifles require fast acquisition and no thinking. Point and shoot.

All rifles have had some tweaking (triggers, action work, etc) and all work very smoothly.

.308, 38/357, and .223/5.56 ammo is pretty much world wide. That makes me feel much better! 7.62x39 is out there as well but manual action choices are much more limited.

OK, sorry to write so much. Happy New Year to all! And do not forget that given ammo is readily available - "Buy cheap, stack deep".

[jarhead714]

I really like the looks of the FR8.

Strange though, that they made tkhem with a straight bolt handle instead of bent. I've heard that fingers can get pinched between the bolt handle and tall rear sight while cycling.

Shoot the FR-8 just once, and you most likely won't ever give that rifle another thought until you read it in a Calguns thread.

[smle-man]

This one in .223. You can make your own handguard from an M14 fiberglass handguard, this one is from an M1 rifle. A handguard is important to hide the heat mirage and to protect your fingers when doing a string of rapid fire. I've used bolt action sporters in combat action type matches and with fast firing and reloads the fingers will stray to the burning hot barrel and you risk a nasty burn.

Back in the day I used a Winchester model 70 with a Lee Enfield handguard adapted to it along with a clip slot adapter that allowed the used of M14 clips. It also had a Williams adjustable peep sight. It was a pretty accurate and fast rifle and I regret selling it to this day.

[Guardian Mode]

Yeah Hog Hunter is limited. For me, it's more of a surplus rifle alternative that also makes for a budget precision gun.
But for a modern battle bolt gun, the MVP Patrol's use of AR pmags is cool. Esp if you throw it into a MDT LSS stock that, I believe, has an AR mag release button. The volley from a half dozen 30rd pmags would still be king.
Mix in a cheap folding stock adapter, and you also have the most portable setup, too. 25 rd pmags with +6 extensions for the 308 version would kick ***.

But I like that 308 build that was mentioned with the 16" proof barrel, defiance in a magpul. I don't know if the 10rd aics pmags are out now, but the 6rd mags seem like a nice size, too.
But then you can get the hog hunter in 223 or 308 in an LSS chassis, or any Remy or tikka, too for that matter.
But if we are talking out of the box, would the 20" 308 ruger precision rifle be too much? It takes the previously mentioned pmags and has a folding stock.
Top either gun with anything between a Vortex Strike Eagle to a Trijicon TR25C. Both of which are 1-6x.

[UberPatriot]

Thanks for the responses guys. A lot of good input and a lot more options out there than what I first thought.

I'm going to stay away from a Mosin because I feel like the long pull of the action prohibits speed of operation having to basically re shoulder after each round. Playing around with my own 91/30 (which is a really fun rifle) has convinced me that a shorter action is absolutely necessary for me to get anywhere close to the speed and functionality of a semi-auto.

The Troy and POF offerings are very interesting, and I suspect, given my skill level with a pump shotgun vs. my auto at clays and doves that it would almost be a wash with the Troy vs. a semi-auto. While these options are probably great for people who hate bullet buttons or live in countries where semi-autos are banned I feel like they would be cheating the challenge for me as they are essentially AR rifles converted to manual operation.

That leaves me leaning strongly towards the Mossberg MVP and Ruger scout. The lack of detachable magazines and uncommon ammo has removed many of the surplus recommendations from my short list, which is a shame because I like the idea of a bayonet for this project. Also on the short list would be to pick up a used Remington 700 and spend a few hundred bucks customizing it for this purpose. I guess a CZ 527 would also be considered on this short list if I went with an intermediate cartridge.

Some concerns I have with my lack of experience for any of these rifles would be the operation of the safety, and the durability of the rifle as I plan on doing some movement and grass drills as part of a course of fire.

Here's my Mosin, works for me.
[IMG][/IMG]

[200Apples]

.
^ ^ ^ That's a neat-lookin' rig. I dig the little details. I have questions!

Which variation of the Mosin did you start with? (I don't know enough to identify it if that were possible). Whose stock? How much did you take off the barrel? How long is the barrel now? How much does your rifle weigh in it's present configuration? What is the rifle's LOA?