Bolt action battle rifles

[ChuckDizzle]

While I love the practicality of my semi-auto rifles for defense I've always enjoyed pushing my skills and my gear to the limits. All the talk of a statewide ban on semi-automatic rifles got me thinking about the effectiveness of a bolt action rifle for run and gun/defense purposes etc. After watching my grandfather compete in SASS style competitions I am convinced that most hardware limitations can be overcome with enough practice (well not entirely, but let's say a well practiced shooter with a bolt action rifle could out shoot an inexperienced person with a semi-auto).

So my query to the forum is what rifles would you consider for such a purpose? I know that most bolt guns are set up and designed for either long range target shooting or hunting. What caliber would you choose? What type of optics, stock and barrel weights/lengths would you consider?

On a side note I would appreciate any advice on specific drills or challenges on learning to efficiently and effectively wield a bolt-action rifle.

[dvs762]

mysefl..I'd get a No.5 enfield or a modern equivelent and go from there with a good sling and a red dot. It would have to have a detachable magazine and capable of a flash hider or muzzle break.

[bsumoba]

I guess if I would have to entertain the idea of a "bolt action" battle rifle, it would need to be:

* Action is a short throw, three lug design bolt for quick cycling, lightweight

* Barrel as short as possible with a brake and have it as short you can get away with

* Optics would probably be a 1-8x power optic like the USO version so quick engagements are easy up close, but enough to reach out there

* Stock would be a lightweight stock that can utilize a sling well

* Magazine system that can use maybe the 20 round PMags (10 in our state). So I guess the AICS mags are probably the best quality. Run them with the AW version mags so it is lower profile and easier to move with since it is a double stack version.

* Caliber...I would say .223 with high grain bullets like the 90gr VLD or 77+ grain bullets so it can reach out there a little bit better, 6x47, 6.5x47, or even 6.5 creedmoor.

[MrSam]

While I love the practicality of my semi-auto rifles for defense I've always enjoyed pushing my skills and my gear to the limits. All the talk of a statewide ban on semi-automatic rifles got me thinking about the effectiveness of a bolt action rifle for run and gun/defense purposes etc. After watching my grandfather compete in SASS style competitions I am convinced that most hardware limitations can be overcome with enough practice (well not entirely, but let's say a well practiced shooter with a bolt action rifle could out shoot an inexperienced person with a semi-auto).

So my query to the forum is what rifles would you consider for such a purpose? I know that most bolt guns are set up and designed for either long range target shooting or hunting. What caliber would you choose? What type of optics, stock and barrel weights/lengths would you consider?

On a side note I would appreciate any advice on specific drills or challenges on learning to efficiently and effectively wield a bolt-action rifle.

I'm a bolt-action novice myself, but I do own a few. Here's my $.02:

Caliber: It depends on what you want it for. For a bolt action, .308 seems like an all around good caliber. That said, my M77 is chambered in .223 and shoots like a dream.

Stock: I've never been a fan of swapping stocks out. I know plenty of the members here do.

Optics: Again, depends on what you are going to use it for. At the end of the day, try not to skimp out too much on glass. Decent quality scopes can be had for fairly little. I have a Prostaff 3-9 on my M77. I believe I paid $90, used, for it.

Barrel weight: Personal preference. I tend to gravitate towards heavy barrels.

Barrel length: Again, personal preference. 26" barrels are perfect for me.

[Milsurps]

Bolt action battle rifles

Bolt action Battle Rifles

My Wife's Scoped Savage 308 deer rifle. Nice rifle. Alas scopes break and or fail with no irons backup.
For me my O2A3, Battle Tested, has never has failed me.

YMMV.

[RNE228]

For defense or SHTF, get a common rifle in a common caliber. If SHTF, it will be hard to get parts or ammo unless it is a very common platform.

Rem 700 is most common bolt platform
556 is most common ammo

Get and learn to use good iron sights
Then add a quality scope(don't want scope to break first time you bang the rifle around...)

Now become a proficient rifleman with the above. Multiple positions at multiple ranges.

KISS - Keep It Simple Silly. Gadgets and widgets are cool and fun, but are no good when they fail or break.

[crono35]

I have a mossberg MVP patrol in .308, it would fit most of your requirements pretty well. 16" barrel, uses ar10 magazines, backup iron sights, accurate and affordable.

[ChuckDizzle]

I guess if I would have to entertain the idea of a "bolt action" battle rifle, it would need to be:

* Action is a short throw, three lug design bolt for quick cycling, lightweight

* Barrel as short as possible with a brake and have it as short you can get away with

* Optics would probably be a 1-8x power optic like the USO version so quick engagements are easy up close, but enough to reach out there

* Stock would be a lightweight stock that can utilize a sling well

* Magazine system that can use maybe the 20 round PMags (10 in our state). So I guess the AICS mags are probably the best quality. Run them with the AW version mags so it is lower profile and easier to move with since it is a double stack version.

* Caliber...I would say .223 with high grain bullets like the 90gr VLD or 77+ grain bullets so it can reach out there a little bit better, 6x47, 6.5x47, or even 6.5 creedmoor.

I like the way you are thinking. Sling is and lightweight stock is a must, as well as detachable magazines. I like the idea of variable optics since that's what I've been happily using on my AR-15 (Mk AR Mod-1 firedot), but would probably cap the magnification to keep overall weight down.

Definitely have to go with a short throw action as playing around with my old 91/30 really exposes the limitation of having to re-shoulder or at least re-sight after working the action.

My only concern with going as short as possible with the barrel is the loss of velocity and increased muzzle blast. Especially if the caliber is 5.56. I'm not sure what the velocity drop offs are for 7.62x51 or other competing cartridges. Interesting take on the cartridge, I hadn't really considered the heavier .223 bullets out on the market these days and to be honest I don't know much about the ballistics other than seeing how incredibly accurate some 75gr rounds have been from my 1/7 AR barrel.

[milotrain]

While I love the practicality of my semi-auto rifles for defense I've always enjoyed pushing my skills and my gear to the limits.

You outshoot your semi-autos?

Mad minute drill.

[ChuckDizzle]

For defense or SHTF, get a common rifle in a common caliber. If SHTF, it will be hard to get parts or ammo unless it is a very common platform.

Rem 700 is most common bolt platform
556 is most common ammo

Get and learn to use good iron sights
Then add a quality scope(don't want scope to break first time you bang the rifle around...)

Now become a proficient rifleman with the above. Multiple positions at multiple ranges.

KISS - Keep It Simple Silly. Gadgets and widgets are cool and fun, but are no good when they fail or break.

I'm not really into the whole SHTF thing to be honest with you, however my AR-15 covers all those concerns nicely. This project is just a challenge for me to see how closely I could compete with myself between a semi-auto and bolt action rifle, with of course the consideration of the viability of the cartridge for combat given the RPM limitations of the bolt rifle. Once I settle on a rifle set-up and practice for a while I will likely be putting it through some military standard courses of fire. I actually did something similar with my Mini 14 before selling it and yes, I was able to meet U.S. Army and USMC rifle qualification standards with it (although it became apparent that top scores for either were out of reach with the Ruger.)

[JMP]

All the talk of a statewide ban on semi-automatic rifles got me thinking about the effectiveness of a bolt action rifle for run and gun/defense purposes etc.

The very nicest sniper rifles are bolt action and completely legal. Check out the products that Accuracy International makes. The very nicest optical equipment is also usually legal.

[ChuckDizzle]

You outshoot your semi-autos?

Mad minute drill.

Excellent! Thanks for the recommendation as this is the exact kind of challenge I was looking for.

[ChuckDizzle]

The very nicest sniper rifles are bolt action and completely legal. Check out the products that Accuracy International makes. The very nicest optical equipment is also usually legal.

I don't want a sniper rifle though.

[RNE228]

that is an interesting challenge. I shoot an older Rem700V in 308. It is a consistent sub-moa shooter with handloads or quality commercial ammo. That is out of box, wood BDL stock and all.

I would be tempted to look at Savage now, although it is funny; every time someone mentions Savage I think Mdl-99 lever action. But the latest Savage bolt rifles look pretty nice.

Are you thinking scope or irons?

In original post you mentioned hunting; I would look at 308. My 700V with Sierra 165bthp Gameking is a tack driver on long range deer and antelope. That bullet has performance close to the 168bthp Matchking.

I'm not really into the whole SHTF thing to be honest with you, however my AR-15 covers all those concerns nicely. This project is just a challenge for me to see how closely I could compete with myself between a semi-auto and bolt action rifle, with of course the consideration of the viability of the cartridge for combat given the RPM limitations of the bolt rifle. Once I settle on a rifle set-up and practice for a while I will likely be putting it through some military standard courses of fire. I actually did something similar with my Mini 14 before selling it and yes, I was able to meet U.S. Army and USMC rifle qualification standards with it (although it became apparent that top scores for either were out of reach with the Ruger.)

[Bhobbs]

If you want a bolt action battle rifle, buy one. I have a Kar98k, M44 Mosin Nagant and an M1903a3. All very powerful and capable rifles. The bolt on the Mosin is a little tricky but not bad once you get used to it. .30-06 is everywhere, so ammo for the 03a3 isn't hard to find.