Question on Glock 36, round count, and 9mm vs .45ACP

[InGrAM]

Carry what you will actually carry. The old adage is true, "any gun is better than no gun."

[44fred]

Don't everybody get butthurt about what I'm typing.

Glock 36 doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Think of each bullet as a potential solution to a problem. You want as many solutions as possible.

They shot that terrorist in Paris 60 times and he still made it out of the front door of the kosher supermarket. Pistol calibers suck in general.

LAPD hits their target about 30% of the time. How much firearms training do you have? Are you as trained or better trained than the typical LAPD officer? 30% hit ratio with a 7 round gun means 2 rounds hit your target. And I've heard (though I have not looked it up to confirm) that 50% of armed encounters involve 2 or more assailants. Now you've shot your 2 attackers 1 time each with a 7 round gun.

9mm is easier to get hits with, because it recoils less. As you can see by the photo below, most quality duty ammo these days do just about the same thing. So all things being equal, I'll take more of the smaller bullet that recoils less, then less of the bigger bullet that recoils more.

People that say they can shoot 9mm/40/45 as well as each other usually don't shoot for time, or score their targets. Time your shooting, like give yourself 1 second per shot, score your targets, and you'll see better scores with lower recoiling firearms and ammunition.

So...the "only" thing that makes since to "you" is a 10+1 capacity 9mm.
We get it.
Hope you didn't get "butthurt".

[PseudoTsuga]

I think you need to actually PUT a shield in your hand, and a 36 in your hand to understand why people would advocate the shield, with its similar round count in a smaller caliber over the 36.
The 36, in pictures on the internet, looks like a small gun. It's really not. Yes, it's narrower than the typical glock. But it's honestly the same size as a 23/19.
To me, it's a very inefficient use of its size.
The shield, however...
That thing will absolutely disappear iwb.
Fwiw, I have a G27 and feel very well armed. I would feel equally well armed with the 26 as well.

[oddjob]

I carry a Sig 938 with 147's. Six + one and no spare mag. Its my "grab and go to the store" gun. I'm one of those who believe capacity is a little over rated for MOST ccw applications. I also carry a 5 shot S&W J-frame once in awhile.

Watch some of the shooting videos on line. Not so much the police shooting videos, but your suspect(s) who robs a store. When the store owner shoots back they seem to turn and run with the first shot. Your "street level, junior varsity" thug if you will. This is more likely the type of suspect(s) you'll encounter.

If you run into a "major league" level suspect(s) and/or terrorist(s) you won't survive without a partner/team (as a general rule). I'll also toss in the "lucky shot" by the JV suspect!

I think the G36 is a fine ccw gun.

[Bad Caselaw]

I think you need to actually PUT a shield in your hand, and a 36 in your hand to understand why people would advocate the shield, with its similar round county in a smaller caliber over the 36.
The 36, in pictures on the internet, looks like a small gun. It's really not. Yes, it's narrower than the typical glock. But it's honestly the same size as a 23/19.
To me, it's a very inefficient use of its size.
The shield, however...
That thing will absolutely disappear iwb.

The SIG P938 absolutely disappears iwb.




And the G36 carries a lot different than the G23.

It is thinner AND lighter weight loaded. So are the spare mags.

It is also a subsonic/low pressure Major caliber.




Caselaw

[Bad Caselaw]

Don't everybody get butthurt about what I'm typing.

Glock 36 doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Think of each bullet as a potential solution to a problem. You want as many solutions as possible.

They shot that terrorist in Paris 60 times and he still made it out of the front door of the kosher supermarket. Pistol calibers suck in general.

LAPD hits their target about 30% of the time. How much firearms training do you have? Are you as trained or better trained than the typical LAPD officer? 30% hit ratio with a 7 round gun means 2 rounds hit your target. And I've heard (though I have not looked it up to confirm) that 50% of armed encounters involve 2 or more assailants. Now you've shot your 2 attackers 1 time each with a 7 round gun.

9mm is easier to get hits with, because it recoils less. As you can see by the photo below, most quality duty ammo these days do just about the same thing. So all things being equal, I'll take more of the smaller bullet that recoils less, then less of the bigger bullet that recoils more.

People that say they can shoot 9mm/40/45 as well as each other usually don't shoot for time, or score their targets. Time your shooting, like give yourself 1 second per shot, score your targets, and you'll see better scores with lower recoiling firearms and ammunition.

In a self defense shooting...?

...the odds of needing more than Six(6) rounds to stop the threat? Are only 40% greater than those of ending up as a Highway Fatality that same year. (so, wear your seat-belt and carry a spare mag)

People that say they can shoot 9mm/40/45 as well as each other usually don't shoot for time, or score their targets. Time your shooting, like give yourself 1 second per shot, score your targets...

G36//230 gr./Ten yard/Five second/Five shot... One Handed.

Carry what you shoot best.




Caselaw

[CalNRA]

Try the 36 side by side with a 30 and see which one you feel more comfortable gripping and carrying.

I have both and like them both. The 36s does have a nice grip profile that is not found in other Glocks.

[Ruby]

Question on Glock 36, round count, and 9mm vs .45ACP

Don't everybody get butthurt about what I'm typing.



Glock 36 doesn't make a whole lot of sense.



Think of each bullet as a potential solution to a problem. You want as many solutions as possible.



They shot that terrorist in Paris 60 times and he still made it out of the front door of the kosher supermarket. Pistol calibers suck in general.



LAPD hits their target about 30% of the time. How much firearms training do you have? Are you as trained or better trained than the typical LAPD officer? 30% hit ratio with a 7 round gun means 2 rounds hit your target. And I've heard (though I have not looked it up to confirm) that 50% of armed encounters involve 2 or more assailants. Now you've shot your 2 attackers 1 time each with a 7 round gun.



9mm is easier to get hits with, because it recoils less. As you can see by the photo below, most quality duty ammo these days do just about the same thing. So all things being equal, I'll take more of the smaller bullet that recoils less, then less of the bigger bullet that recoils more.



People that say they can shoot 9mm/40/45 as well as each other usually don't shoot for time, or score their targets. Time your shooting, like give yourself 1 second per shot, score your targets, and you'll see better scores with lower recoiling firearms and ammunition.

The G36 is unique, and feels nothing like the other sub-compact Glocks. It fits the hand better, is more concealable, and is more controllable than any of the others. I recommend anyone to shoot before you buy.

That's a great graphic. It looks like penetration is similar between all calibers but from top to bottom the diameter of the damage is noticeably larger in the .45. Are any graphics available showing the damage a 10mm would inflict?

[PseudoTsuga]

The SIG P938 absolutely disappears iwb.




And the G36 carries a lot different than the G23.

It is thinner AND lighter weight loaded. So are the spare mags.

It is also a subsonic/low pressure Major caliber.




Caselaw

Here's one next to a 19 or 23 for size comparison.





And here's a 26/27 next to a 30.




Worlds of difference, to my eye.

[Bad Caselaw]

Here's one next to a 19 or 23 for size comparison.





And here's a 26/27 next to a 30.




Worlds of difference, to my eye.

Well, unless you are going to carry it w/ your eye as well...?

You missed the point.

They carry different, a lot different. Thinner, and lighter weight.

Lookin' good, Caselaw. Personally I don't like to shoot at large targets without a way to score.

I'll shoot 5-10 rounds at a B8 repair center, then divide my score by my time with a Competition Electronics Pocket Pro II. That gives me a number I can use as a metric to how well I'm shooting.

For Working pistols, I always use a silhouette. These have a 4"x5.5" center.

Usually Five-shot strings, or a pair of Mozambique (Two-center/One-Head). One-second intervals.


For that target... First shot center mass, followed by an 1-1/2" four-shot group high, in the Thoracic triangle, due to rushed recovery sight picture.

Minute-of-Goblin, but I'm working on it.






Caselaw

[PseudoTsuga]

My point is simply that for a "compact" they are surprisingly not compact.

I am a huge fan of .45acp. Until recently, all my pistols were chambered in it. I understand the advantages of a low pressure round.
I get it.
But my 27 sure is easy to hide.
IMO.

[Strykeback]

Great discussion, been on the fence between the 30 and 36. Shot a friends 26 and was surprised how accurate it was with no recoil. This would be for my first glock and have been wanting a 45. Santa Barbara county will be the last ones dragged kicking and screaming into ccw land.

[Click Boom]

I like 15+1 or 17+1, if I must single stack, I got an xds.

[KrisDSA]

The 45acp Glocks are way to big. I love my XDS way better. It's a diff 45 but I also like the Glock 39

[tacticalcity]

People are willing to compromise capacity for concealability I guess. So they are "ok" with the Shield but not with the Glock 36?

I don't know enough about the 36 to answer this question. Is it as slim and small as the Shield? Or is it pretty much as thick as a Glock 26?

I have a sneaking suspicion the answer to that question answers yours. If the Glock 36 is the same size as a Glock 26 then many people would rather have the extra rounds to go with that extra thickness. Plus with the 36 that small of a gun with such a powerful round is gonna be a bear to control. So you're follow up shots are likely gonna be slower. In such a small size even a 9mm wears you out quickly and causes fatigue...which leads to limp wristing...which leads to feed issues...which leads to people not practicing with the smaller gun as much as their full size one...which is not ideal.

As for the old 45 vs 9mm would path picture...no gun is one shot one stop guaranteed...and while you can get very good at shot placement it too cannot be guaranteed. What you can guarantee is that if you put enough holes in the bad guy and spread them around to as many vital organs as possible his body will go into shock and shut down faster. The body is great at dealing with a single wound...and keeping the mind from even registering it by filling the body with adrenaline and rushing white blood cells to wound. Which is why it is actually a bad idea to put all your shots into the same place like we all spend our range days practicing how to. If the holes are too close together the body can trick itself into thinking it is one hole and deal with it better. The body doesn't care if that one whole is slightly bigger because you used a bigger bullet. Get him in the brain pan different story. Pierce his heart or vital artery and sure he'll bleed out quicker. But again, there is no guarantee.

Another important consideration that goes completely ignored is the fact that we live in a different world. Mexican Drug cartels are in California running grow farms and setting up shop in record numbers. They've been low key compared to their activities in Mexico, but they have done many a home invasion...some of which is on youtube. When they come...they come in force. Even when you're just some old man who has no connection to their world (also on youtube). So in the rarified event you need to use your gun to defend yourself, thanks to the Cartels being in California the odds are it won't be one guy you are fighting off but many.

Don't get me wrong. I like 1911s. I like the 45. But I also like the 9mm. Especially the increased round count for the same size frame. If I have a heavy gun with a steel frame then I don't shy away from the 45 because I will still be able to control it and get fast follow up shots. But with a Glock and it's polymer frame, I've always preferred the 9mm for the sake of being able to get my follow up shots off faster. That said, like I posted in the two paragraphs above...the additional round count is comforting to me as well.