? Question To CZ Owners...

[Ribkick]

...or other owners of bargain 1911's

To open, this is going to probably sit bad with a few CZ owners no matter how I couch the question.

I read a lot here and post rarely. I read a lot of CZ threads with the OP questioning tooling marks, staking slips, pits in castings, scratches etc, etc, ad nauseam. These are all confined to the internal works on the most part.

My question, if you're not up to purchasing (for whatever reason) a premium 1911 model handgun such as Kimber (questionable), Les Bear, Wilson, STI, Swenson, Colt, or any of the myriad shops, etc., why do you expect your CZ to be finished inside and out with the finest fitting and machining that a premium 1911 would be expected to receive and demands the premium price?

The old, you get what you pay for comes to mind and I also wonder why the firearm wasn't field stripped at the dealer (ask the dealer to strip it if they won't let you or you're not confident) and inspected prior to DROS.

There is no offense intended and I have the same thoughts of someone that purchases an imported, inexpensive, double gun then wants the fit and finish of a Perazzi.

I'm not questioning someone that bought, fired, and upon cleaning noticed pieces damaged, bent, metal chinked out, etc.

Thank you for your insight and responses.

[Erion929]

Well said...and I agree. I just bought my first CZ, waiting the next 8 days for it to come out of jail. I bought it for characteristics I like: ergos, feel, steel weight, accuracy, recoil management, and positive feedback and reputation. I am oblivious to tooling marks and nick knacks, in general. I will check it out...now that those threads are at the top of the forum...but as long as it performs I won't give it a 2nd thought.

It's a Czech Republic gun....highly doubt it's under the pressure that an American manufacturer would have for finish quality. Like I said, as long as it performs I will chalk any tooling marks up to a Czech handcrafting it for me, lol. Aftermarket trigger job may be in the future, but I didn't want to spend $850-1000 for a stock handgun right now...too many SSEs.

[dyson]

I own a few myself, well said op

[Tok36]

I am never surprised when i see posts from new buyers about the internal finish of CZ's because i went through the same thing with the first CZ i purchased. It is perfectly reasonable to have a need for an exceptional level of finish work and less reasonable to expect that level from a manufacturer that is not known for it.

When i acquired my first CZ i noticed the tool marks when i first field striped the pistol, and for a moment my stomach dropped. My first pistol before that was an HK P-2000 and it was perfect inside. I went online and googled it, and found out rather quickly that internal tool marks are not uncommon and generally do not effect the function of the pistol. It did not take long for me to forget about it as i continued to put rounds through it. When i acquire a new CZ these days i do not notice the tool marks. Through personal experience with these pistols i have learned what is and is not important to me.

It dose not bother me when a new owner makes a post or inquires about the tool marks or even a ruff polycoat finish. It takes some people longer to get over it, if they are able to get over it at all. CZ's are not for everyone. If one of a persons requirements is a pistol with perfect finishing inside the slide they may not be able to enjoy a CZ as much as some people can. This is perfectly ok, CZ's are not for everyone and their gripes are valid to a point. When the concern turns into whining i just tune out. Some folks have a need to exercise their issues online to a point of pure self gratification. Luckily we have no obligation to read or listen to it. I actually like the tool marks now because it turns some people off.

I am not an all around supporter of the "Guns are tools and nothing els" position, but these things are designed to have expositions set off inside them and they will ware with time and use. Even the most expensive completely custom hand fitted pistols are going to ware if they are being used. If they are pistols that are put to work getting over the superficial aspects of ware will expand ones enjoyment in the long run.

The real value of these pistols for me is not their stock configuration but what they can become when worked on at home or by one of the outstanding custom shops available for CZ's. Once customized, for around a grand you can have a pistol that is hard to beat with anything els available. This is dependent on your needs of course and your opinion.

The CZ community is another asset of owning a CZ. The level of enthusiast is high for this manufacture and i have found a general need in them to help other owners. They have alos proved to be well informed and well temperd for the most part. To me this is priceless. Buying a CZ or any pistol for that matter is the first step for me. The real joy comes form continuing to learn about them and over time turning them into something greater than what they started out as. Sometimes all that is required for this is use and other times after market parts and installation come into play.

Hell, i envy the guys that get off on Glocks and other manufactures that i do not currently have the ability to appreciate. Their is clearly something there that i just cannot see yet. Hopefully in time i will learn to appreciate them all.

Just my 2c...(the value of Tok's 2c may vary)

[smak28]

100% agree with you OP. I think it's because people may not realize what quality may be unless they have actually shot one or held one. I say this only because I really didn't realize the difference until I purchased my first Wilson and Nighthawk where I was able to visibly see and feel the difference between the high end 1911s vs. my Kimber 1911 and all others including CZs.

[Gryff]

I read a lot here and post rarely. I read a lot of CZ threads with the OP questioning tooling marks, staking slips, pits in castings, scratches etc, etc, ad nauseam. These are all confined to the internal works on the most part.

My question, if you're not up to purchasing (for whatever reason) a premium 1911 model handgun such as Kimber (questionable), Les Bear, Wilson, STI, Swenson, Colt, or any of the myriad shops, etc., why do you expect your CZ to be finished inside and out with the finest fitting and machining that a premium 1911 would be expected to receive and demands the premium price?

CZs are the current trendy gun (especially the SP-01). They have great ergos, and can be turned into top-notch firearms, but usually the people who sing the highest praises about the platform are the ones who have dropped an additional $200-300 on custom work by Cajun Gun Works.

The guns are slightly rough out of the box, but still great firearms. People just need to keep things in perspective about what they are buying, and to not over-expect just because the guns are this year's hot trend.

[safety-1st]

I'm sure many CZ have better builds than others. Are these rugged build issues only with the SP's? The P-07/9 polymers look pretty clean that I have looked at. I did not take the slide off or check the internals but would this be an issue with slide over a polymer frame?

[Dattebayo]

I'm sure many CZ have better builds than others. Are these rugged build issues only with the SP's? The P-07/9 polymers look pretty clean that I have looked at. I did not take the slide off or check the internals but would this be an issue with slide over a polymer frame?

The P-07/P-09 slides undergo a different treatment than the older 75 models do. Because of that, the slide is heavily blasted before the metal treatment is applied which causes the tooling marks to either be hidden or blasted away.

[5ZS]

As a retail consumer, one is expected to get what most people are receiving, no better no worse.

Rough machine marks would be normal on must guns, but a installation drag mark would raise a question. We have seen quality question to Dan Wesson up to Nighthawk.

Not all gun shop will let you dry fire, let alone field strip a gun. If they did, there will be more threads about starches on the frame.

[customiiguy]

i have 3 sp01's, 2 NIB. i jus checked the slide on one of the new gun and it looks the same as my one that was made in 08. lots of tool marks but it doesnt bother me. i know its gonna perform just as good and thats all that matters. dont wanna rack my other new one as it has a black barrel and i dont wanna mark it up

[RR.44]

I picked up my new CZ 75B last Monday, I immediately field stripped it and was disturbed by the tool marks that were on the internal portion of the slide, I took a fine grit sanding pad to it and smoothed out the tool marks, today I shot it and it performed flawlessly, because it's a standard 75B it's in need of a trigger job and it could use a better set of sights, however, like I said it performed flawlessly. I'm gonna send it to CGW for one of their Pro Package upgrades, I've shot a 75B Shadow and it was 10X better than mine is, I've heard great things about the work that CGW does and I'm confident that it will come back shooting like that Shadow did, the tool marks are no longer an issue for me as I smoothed them out quite nice.

I too have read the other threads talking about how the tool marks found on some CZs and what a big deal it was to the new owners, to me the outside of the weapon is what matters, not the internal finish, I'm the only one who's going to see it.

This of course is just my opinion as it applies to my particular weapon, as I've said before, to each his own.

Rich

[umd]

I didn't notice any kind of tool marks or poor finishes, but I got one of the custom shop shadows so maybe they go over that stuff a little better.

[BEE]

Agreed. Own a few CZ's & DW's myself. Before getting into CZ's years ago I knew CZ's were a little rough in the inside due to tools being worn and not changed. That doesn't stop me from buying them or even bother me and will continue buying them as I love their external aesthetics and the fact that they are very capable handguns for combat, duty, hd, sd, or competition. After purchasing my DW 1911's which are pretty much perfect in my eyes I don't expect DW craftsmanship inside CZ handguns.

[Zartan]

That's one of the reasons I Love my CZ's. Pretty on the outside, a little rough on the inside, but they always run flawless.

[czrami]

CZUB makes guns for military and police contracts.

They could refine their guns a bit, but the price would go up.

None of these things that people nit-pick keep the guns from
shooting well.