Using a modified g19 (salient/ zev) for concealed carry

[hermosabeach]

A good shoot is a good shoot

An accidental / negligent shot is a bad shoot

How you get charged or if you get charged with an ND is up to the city prosecutor / DA.


If you have an iffy case or a DA who wants to make a national office, then modifications can be difficult to defend on top of the negligent shooting.


So let's say you toss the LCI and someone shoots themself.

So they ignore all 4 safety rules-

Lacking an LCI would not have saved them from violating all 4 safety rules.




But a DA who wants to go national, that makes a great headline.

Gun owner removes safety device and friend kills another as the result.





I follow the clean shoot policy.

A good shoot is a good shoot.

A 3.5 Glock (-) disconnect is a factory part. I feel they are OK




Look at all of the shooting lawsuits

Modified guns are rarely a deciding factor




I have never seen a case where that was the issue

[ruchik]

There has yet to be a single documented case where a gun owner has been successfully prosecuted on the basis of his weapon having been legally modified. This whole deal started when Massad Ayoob mentioned it in one of his articles, but the precedent does not exist.

Regardless of how much it cost, at the moment my life is being threatened, I'd want to be using the most effective tool available to me. If that's your $3000 custom 1911, well then that's what I'd be using. I mean really. Your life is hanging in the balance. If you're the most accurate with your expensive custom gun, then give yourself the best odds of making it out in one piece by using the best hardware you've got. You can always get another one later on.

[Press Check]

But there is at least a very significant chance you will wind up in civil court, being sued by the person you shot, or his family. Remember, when you're being sued for $5M that lawyer wants his half, and he has made it his profession to get it. I don't want to roll the dice that I would be able to outfox him in front of a jury regarding a "specially modified gun designed to require less effort to kill my client's brother", or a "highly modified trigger system, which caused the defendant's shaky hands to shoot my client through the lung and spine, permanently degrading his quality of life."

FUD.

This is CA, and you can sue someone for just about anything.

In court, there's not going to be much difference between a Glock trigger that was polished by the end-user to smooth the trigger actuation, and a SAI or Fulcrum trigger that simply allows the end-user to reduce the take-up and over-travel of the trigger.

If the shooting was questionable, or worse, negligent, everything comes under scrutiny, including the ninja-like IWB you drew the pistol from, to the Wheaties you had for breakfast earlier that morning, the DA will paint a picture of an armed vigilante waiting for an opportunity to kill someone.

If you have the inherently common upgrades such as night sights, an extended magazine release, an extended slide stop lever, prepare to have those items exploited as well.

The question is, in a justifiable shooting, are triggers, RMR's, and other aftermarket components things that you should be fearful of if forced to use deadly force in preservation of life and limb? Is there a law that prohibits upgrading a CCW or HD firearm?

As I always say, a good shoot is a good shoot, regardless of what you used to defend yourself. That said, trust me, my choice to use an aftermarket trigger in my pistol is hardly going to be the deciding factor in my arrest or questioning. If I shot someone, he had a gun, a knife, a heavy object (brick, pipe, bat, etc) to bludgeon me with, and was positively identified as a threat.

In my case, since a concealed license is virtually impossible to obtain in my County, a shooting, God forbid, would occur within the confines of my home.

If confronted and cornered in my home, I will defend our lives with a conventional pistol, a classic pistol, a race pistol, an AR-15, a bolt gun, a BB gun, a nail gun, or whatever I can reach first. Did I really have to pelt him in the chest with 10 consecutive rounds of .22LR? Until I knew the threat was no longer a threat, I certainly did, and there is no obligation to simply injure a threat into submission.

That said, my life, in addition to the lives of my family members are without price, so if there is a pistol upgrade that will enable me to defend our lives faster, more effectively, and more efficiently against a positively identified threat, I will spare no expense in doing so, and unlike others, will not cower in fear of the consequences associated with doing so. When seconds count, I want to have the advantage, period. If that means a light trigger or an RMR, so be it.

At the end of the day, unless you have positively identified the threat, your finger should not be staged on the trigger.

[Sohum63]

Didn't read all the responses so not sure if this was mentioned. Regarding a 3lb trigger on one gun is a 3lb trigger on any gun. Couple things I have heard regarding this, mostly by Ayoob but a couple others have brought it up one being common customs and practice and second is what the manufatuer specified a part for. I think it was in a recent Ayoob files an officer used the factory glock lighter weight target or compatition trigger in the gun he used in a shooting. Because Glock specs that trigger for range and compatition and the stock trigger found in most of their guns for duty/ self defense it had some play in the case. Granted, I believe a comment maid by the officer about not meaning to fire likely brought more attention to the trigger and likely played more of a role than the trigger itself.
The common customs and practices is just that, can u show that running a 3lb trigger in a glock that is used as a self defense gun? Vs how common is a 3lb trigger in a 1911?
Just going off memory and thought it was somewhat related and might be of interest.

From the post above
That said, my life, in addition to the lives of my family members are without price, so if there is a pistol upgrade that will enable me to defend our lives faster, more effectively, and more efficiently against a positively identified threat, I will spare no expense in doing so, and unlike others, will not cower in fear of the consequences associated with doing so. When seconds count, I want to have the advantage, period. If that means a light trigger or an RMR, so be it.

Even with what I wrote, if an add on is allowed and doesn't cause issues with the gun, use whatever let's you do what needs to be done as safe and effectively as possible. Worst I can imagine is you or a witness having to explain how such an add on will help somebody do what was done more effectively. If it is something that helps, relaying how and why to a jury should be doable.

[Port Authority]

I'd recommend carrying a G30. You get the girth in the caliber and the concealability in one small compact package. Anyone I've known who has CCW'd a G30 out of the box has been a happy and confident individual. True Story!

Look everyone!

I have a G30.

Never mind what the thread was about.

Gotta go now, Mommy's calling me.

Port

[Mossy Man]

From what you have read on the internet and not from what you know right?

It must be true.

[nikki#2]

A 3.5 Glock (-) disconnect is a factory part. I feel they are OK

You may feel that it is OK to install this in your SD gun because it's a factory part ...

But the fact is, Glock only installs this part in it's 'competition' pistols (e.g., G34/G35). Glock pistols marketed for HD/SD do not come with this part installed.

In fact, with Blue Label (LE +) guns, Glock does not install the 3.5lb connector in ANY Blue Label guns, including the 'competition' models.

However..... You feel it's OK to install the part in your HD/SD gun, and that's all that really matters.... It's the, "I feel it is OK because it's a factory part" that doesn't make total sense to me.

[calibased]

Anything under 5lbs is unnecessary in my opinion. With that being said how does this become a legal issue?

[chronixskm]

It must be true.

I would love it if you would provide concrete evidence, I HIGHLY doubt you have any first hand experience with one.

[Mossy Man]

I would love it if you would provide concrete evidence, I HIGHLY doubt you have any first hand experience with one.

whoooooooosh

[chronixskm]

Oh so we both agree now you have no idea what you're talking about?

[nikki#2]

Look everyone!

I have a G30.

Never mind what the thread was about.

Gotta go now, Mommy's calling me.

Port

^^^ LOL !! SoCalIdiot doesn't give a crap what this thread, or any other, is about.

He just got his first Glock two months ago, a new G30... and that's ALL that matters to him.

He has zero experience carrying, and zero experience with firearms in general... He just likes to post about his new G30.

Well my first one is the G30! I'm convinced its the best one out there.

That's what I got, a G30 the best purchase of my life (and I still haven't even tried her out yet).

I'd recommend carrying a G30.

Even my wife agrees the G30 is the perfect gun

THe G30 is the ultimate gun IMO

Should've went with a G30. Those never break!

Get a G30.

The G30 is by far the best one out there.

[Mossy Man]

Oh so we both agree now you have no idea what you're talking about?

you said "you heard it on the internet"

i said "it must be true"

it was a joke


anyway, lots of people here have stated the salient glocks have been the ones hanging up during courses etc, as opposed to the regular ones.

I really don't care if its true or not, but as with any tinkering, typically the tighter the tolerences the less reliability you get.

[44fred]

I just laugh when this stuff comes up again, again and again. Not that I'm tired of it, it just always ends up with the same responses. Most people throw out they "read or heard or ??" about this or that. Usually, mostly bunk.
Reminds me of the over penetration issue in choosing HD ammo. Nobody can ever site a case where a good guy shot through a bad guy and hit another good guy. Not saying it can't happen, it's just an unfounded concern.
I would imagine most of the FUD responses are from those who don't carry, haven't been around very long and/or are just passing along the FUD they heard. Kind of like misinformation you get from the guy behind the gun counter.

Carry on

[chronixskm]

you said "you heard it on the internet"

i said "it must be true"

it was a joke


anyway, lots of people here have stated the salient glocks have been the ones hanging up during courses etc, as opposed to the regular ones.

I really don't care if its true or not, but as with any tinkering, typically the tighter the tolerences the less reliability you get.

The people that have stated that don't own one, never have owned one, never handled one. I've asked people to provide evidence that Salient Arms Glocks don't run. Everyone seems to be butt hurt for some reason whenever Salients guns are brought up in a thread/post and are quick to jump on the bandwagon saying they make a worthless product.

So far no one has shown first hand evidence that their firearms don't run. As I've stated in a previous thread my range buddy owns 3 Tier 1 Salients and they have no problems with them.

I challenge anyone who makes these claims to prove me wrong. I just don't understand where people are getting their info from besides that they heard it from there daddy's uncles high school friends cousins.