Gifting a handgun

[tomhenry]

Hi guys.

I have a question and checked the search function but didn't see anything pertinent.

Here's the situation. I moved from California in 2005. My married adult son remained. Since I was his only shooting buddy, he told me to keep his shotgun with my collection. It's your basic 1970s model Remington 1100 12 guage. Blued steel. Pressed/checkered wood.

He's coming out (to Oklahoma) for a visit next month. He wants to take the shotgun back to California. (Modesto area) Other than complying with Southwest Airlines regulations, is there any legal problem with him retrieving his shotgun? As in, just take it back into the state?

Also, I'd like to "gift" him two handguns, neither of which are on the approved list. But neither of them have any disqualifying characteristics.

One is a 1977 blued Colt Python, six shot, with a six inch barrel. I see on the approved list for stainless, but not blued.

The other is a Colt Series 70 Mark 4 45 ACP semiautomatic that was highly modified by the late Jim Clark when Clark Guns was still in Keithville, Louisiana. 7 round mags, etc.

The Python has my initials engraved on it. The 1911 has my name on it.

Like I said, neither gun is on the approved list, but it seems I remember some exception re a father (me), who lives out of state, "gifting" such handguns as the above to a child. He's my son, not my step-son, as I've seen that step-relations don't apply.

I ask these questions here because I know someone has the answers.

Thank you in advance.

[Librarian]

Can't do it.

Read this: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=503873

If he is an unlicensed (no kind of FFL) CA resident, guns must go to him through a CA FFL; he may not legally take possession and bring them to CA himself.

Father to son gift is an intrafamilial transfer, so Roster does not apply, but interstate requires the CA FFL - intrafamilial transfer is a CA-only thing.

[Quiet]

Can't do it.

Read this: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=503873

If he is an unlicensed (no kind of FFL) CA resident, guns must go to him through a CA FFL; he may not legally take possession and bring them to CA himself.

Father to son gift is an intrafamilial transfer, so Roster does not apply, but interstate requires the CA FFL - intrafamilial transfer is a CA-only thing.

What he said.

And this all needs to be done in order to comply with Federal laws (Gun Control Act of 1968).

[tomhenry]

guns must go to him through a CA FFL; he may not legally take possession and bring them to CA himself.

Thank you.

Then in that case, may I have an FFL on this end ship the handguns to an FFL in Modesto? And he takes possession after proper paperwork, waiting period, etc?

[Mssr. Eleganté]

Thank you.

Then in that case, may I have an FFL on this end ship the handguns to an FFL in Modesto? And he takes possession after proper paperwork, waiting period, etc?

Legally you can ship the firearms yourself to his local FFL in Modesto. But many FFLs have a policy of only accepting shipments from other FFLs. So have your son ask around locally (or on Calguns) to find an FFL with the cheapest transfer price who will accept the shipment directly from you.

[morrcarr67]

Thank you.

Then in that case, may I have an FFL on this end ship the handguns to an FFL in Modesto? And he takes possession after proper paperwork, waiting period, etc?

Be sure to check with the CA ffl to make sure they understand that ALL Interfamiliar transfers are roster exempt. Not all do. You will also need to put a note in that says: I Dad am giving these fine firearms model XXX serial number XXX to my Son.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

[tomhenry]

Well, I just got off the phone with the FFL dealer's store in my son's town. He says I cannot ship the guns, but that my son can come to my state and take the guns back and simply say they belong to him.

One big problem with that is that I used to live in California and these guns were already registed in my name. And there's no way my son can pass for 62 years old.

[Dexter1]

Ship them to tracy rifle and pistol and write a letter stating you are his father and that you are gifting the pistols
To your son. Even off roster does not matter they will transfer it directly down the tree as a gift (father son, mother daughter etc)

[Mssr. Eleganté]

We should have mentioned that about half the FFLs in California will claim that you don't need to involve an FFL for an out of state parent to child transfer. Finding one that understands that an FFL is needed and understands the Roster exemption and doesn't charge too much can be hard.

[edgerly779]

As long as Jim Clark did not put a threaded compensator on the 1911. That is illegal in Ca.

[tomhenry]

Ship them to tracy rifle and pistol and write a letter stating you are his father and that you are gifting the pistols
To your son. Even off roster does not matter they will transfer it directly down the tree as a gift (father son, mother daughter etc)

Thanks for that info. I just got off the phone with one of their staff. He said I could ship the 45 ACP and transfer it to my son because a) the law would allow it and b) it complies with the "single shot exemption" whatever. The single shot thing is that if the gun is off roster, they remove the barrel, he walks out of the store with the gun, he comes back into the store and retrieves the barrrel.

The agent said the Python cannot be transferred because the barrel cannot be removed.

He said the "single shot exemption" rule applies to all off roster guns shipped into the state, and that their store is only one of seven that do it.

Can this issue get any more convoluted?

[Lead Waster]

Well, I just got off the phone with the FFL dealer's store in my son's town. He says I cannot ship the guns, but that my son can come to my state and take the guns back and simply say they belong to him.

One big problem with that is that I used to live in California and these guns were already registed in my name. And there's no way my son can pass for 62 years old.

Firstly, I don't know how much more awesome it would be to be given a Colt Python with your Dad's initials on it! And a Jim Clark smithed 1911 to boot!

The following is just thinking-out-loud, and has no basis in law or reality, just a guy on the internet yapping;

And, of course, I'm no fancy law-talking-guy, but ... really, if OPs son went to visit him in whatever free state he lives in now. Why can't OP just say "Son, these are now yours". And now the son, who is the owner can't just be like any other person moving to CA with off roster guns.?

Or, if a CA resident owned the guns legally in another state, then moved to CA and 10 years later goes to retrieve his guns from his Dad ... if they are HIS, then can't he go get them back from where he stored them?

But of course, CA gun laws are NOT common sense.





Back to reality.

For the "SSE", I don't think you can simply remove the barrel, take the gun, then put the barrel back on. The gun must be converted to a single shot gun with a particular barrel length. So you'd have to take out the barrel, put in a different barrel of correct length and then block the magazine such that the gun is a single shot only pistol. Then, you get to have it DROSsed as a single shot handgun, then after you officially own the gun (passed the background check, waited 10 days,etc) you can do whatever you want with your single shot gun, like swap in the original parts and hand back the single shot stuff to the FFL.



In anycase, don't take my ramblings as anything other than ramblings and rantings about the stupidness of CA gun laws. No real advice in there, except I think I have the SSE process correct.

Good luck, and you're a cool Dad!

[Librarian]

Thanks for that info. I just got off the phone with one of their staff. He said I could ship the 45 ACP and transfer it to my son because a) the law would allow it and b) it complies with the "single shot exemption" whatever. The single shot thing is that if the gun is off roster, they remove the barrel, he walks out of the store with the gun, he comes back into the store and retrieves the barrrel.

The agent said the Python cannot be transferred because the barrel cannot be removed.

He said the "single shot exemption" rule applies to all off roster guns shipped into the state, and that their store is only one of seven that do it.

Can this issue get any more convoluted?

It would seem the person you spoke to is not aware that father-son, intrafamilial transfer is exempt from the Roster - even interstate.

See also the Calguns Foundation Wiki articles on

Intrafamilial transfer - http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Tr...Family_Members

Interstate transfer - http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Tr...rms_Interstate

[Mssr. Eleganté]

...And, of course, I'm no fancy law-talking-guy, but ... really, if OPs son went to visit him in whatever free state he lives in now. Why can't OP just say "Son, these are now yours". And now the son, who is the owner can't just be like any other person moving to CA with off roster guns.?

Because that would be a violation of the 1968 Gun Control Act. Blame President Lyndon Johnson and the 90th United States Congress.

[tomhenry]

Firstly, I don't know how much more awesome it would be to be given a Colt Python with your Dad's initials on it! And a Jim Clark smithed 1911 to boot!

Thanks for the kind comment. The Python has my initials engraved in gold and also sports Herrett's Trooper highly figured walnut, fineline checkering, stocks. I bought it in 1767/77 from Davis Guns in Louisville, KY, for $300. It has had less than 3,000 rounds through it, the vast majority handloads (and I load mild, generally), so I would rate the gun at 98%.

The 1911 I bought around the same time. It cost $234 from M&M Guns in Murray, KY. It has my full name engraved on it. Smithed by Jim Clark, Smith and Wesson sights, target accuracy job, Swenson ambi safety, beveled mag well, etc. Then I had Trapper Guns in Michigan give it a satin nickel finish. It similarly has had few rounds through it.

I made two subsequent modifications to it. I had Paul from Barnwood arms in Ripon, CA, (who, I'm still hoping will do the transfer, but he's gone for two weeks to the Vegas Shot Show; he's also a top, top notch gunsmith if anybody's interested), increase the trigger pull from 3 to 5 pounds, (as 3 pounds was too light for my tastes), and to install a solid barrel bushing. It has zero collector's value, as does the Python, but there is a story behind them both where my son and myself are concerned. They hold tremendous sentimental value to him. It's going to break my heart if I cannot give them to him.

The kind of cool thing about the guns, is that he's a Third. We have the same name. Those are also his initials/his name. So I think he's always considered them his anyway.

But again, thanks for all the responses.

If I have to drive to California and physically hand carry them to the DOJ in Sac, so be it. (I know it doesn't work like that, just saying.)