Question about DA/SA vs Striker - Pistol nub needs clarification

[hardlyworking]

I don't own, nor shoot pistols, but I'm trying to at least become knowledgeable about their workings and what people like/dislike about various features. So with that preface, I now get to my question:

In reading about DA/SA pistols forum posters invariably pop on and say that it is hard(er) to master the trigger because your first pull is DA and SA thereafter. The DA pull is longer/harder due to hammer cocking and therefor they prefer the SAO striker fired guns.

This, to me seems disingenuous. The "striker fans" appear to be starting with their gun cocked/loaded, yet they assume that the DA/SA gun is starting only loaded. Why is that? Why wouldn't one assume that the DA/SA gun is also starting with the hammer back (cocked) and loaded?

And if one were to have their pistol without a loaded chamber, then the striker gun must be racked (cocking it) ... but the DA/SA gun could do the same thing, taking the same amount of time, and configuring the gun (cocked/loaded) the same.

So why is this distinction even mentioned?

Again, I'm asking this just for the sake of knowledge. I have no skin in the game, I don't own any pistols, but I might like to one day, so I'm trying my best to get a handle on WHY people like/dislike various guns/features.

Thank you!

[ChrisBrooklyn]

It's questions of personal preference and how people like to carry, condition 1,2 etc. most sa/da guns have a decocker safety. Which would have one in the chamber without being cocked.. Flip off safety, da first shot. Sa after. (Like the beretta 92). Where a striker fired gun like a glock has internal and trigger safeties. So if there one in the chamber, all you need to do is pull and bang. I own and like both for different reasons and uses.

[Zorgnot]

Most DA/SA have no manual safety. They rely on a long DA pull to prevent a ND. With the exception of FN and I think the H&K pistols. A striker fired gun usually has some kind of safe action trigger, grip safety, or even a thumb safety. A striker gun usually has a longer and more difficult trigger pull than say a 1911 which I'm sure you know is SAO. Like so many have said over and over and over..... it comes down to shot placement and what you are comfortable carrying. You gotta bring a gun to a gun fight.

Sent from my GS4

[Trenchfoot]

To be honest, I think the reason that a lot of people say the DA/SA trigger is hard to master, is because they don't practice with the DA pull. Most people I see at the range with DA/SA guns don't decock the firearm when they load a magazine, therefore they don't practice the first DA pull.

[morrcarr67]

I'm a condition 1 kind of guy.

Trained and carried a 1911 cocked and locked.

Trained and carried a Taurus PT92 cocked and locked; yes you can do that with a Taurus and not Beretta.

Just got me a S&W M&P 40 FS that i plan on using for HD. It has a very different trigger from what I like but it will just be a matter of training with this gun. Though I may; probably, down the line install a Apex trigger in it.

[hardlyworking]

Ok I'm getting a feel here, let me add on a question:

If you kept a gun on the night-stand, both in condition 0 there would really be no difference? Or if anything the DA/SA trigger would actually be nicer?

Obviously anything can be modded with aftermarket parts, but apples-to-apples condition 0 on both guns, its really irrelevant?

And another backup, if you watch vids of guys clearing malfunctions one-handed and they rack the slide with their sights on a belt after a mag-swap... I would think DA would be a huge benefit!

Thanks for input so far guys!

[morrcarr67]

Ok I'm getting a feel here, let me add on a question:

If you kept a gun on the night-stand, both in condition 0 there would really be no difference? Or if anything the DA/SA trigger would actually be nicer?

Obviously anything can be modded with aftermarket parts, but apples-to-apples condition 0 on both guns, its really irrelevant?

And another backup, if you watch vids of guys clearing malfunctions one-handed and they rack the slide with their sights on a belt after a mag-swap... I would think DA would be a huge benefit!

Thanks for input so far guys!

Yes. Training.

I would never keep a SA pistol in condition 0. The safety is there for a reason. Train and learn how to use it as intended.

Same with a DA/SA gun. Training is everything.

[Trenchfoot]

Ok I'm getting a feel here, let me add on a question:

If you kept a gun on the night-stand, both in condition 0 there would really be no difference? Or if anything the DA/SA trigger would actually be nicer?

In theory you would be correct, depending on the guns being compared. In practice, I would never recommend keeping a DA/SA gun on a nightstand in condition 0.

Like I said earlier, training is key. I've seen people at the range put 200 rounds through DA/SA guns, without ever using the DA trigger.

[2761377]

This, to me seems disingenuous. The "striker fans" appear to be starting with their gun cocked/loaded, yet they assume that the DA/SA gun is starting only loaded. Why is that? Why wouldn't one assume that the DA/SA gun is also starting with the hammer back (cocked) and loaded?

!

herr's a link to Glock's explanation of their system, which is the only striker-fired system with which I am personally familiar.

http://us.glock.com/technology/safe-action

most all semi-auto pistols have a firing pin block to prevent accidental discharge in case of being dropped. with most da/sa this safety is disabled when the hammer is cocked- the gun will fire when the trigger releases the sear. so the only safety in that case is the light sa pull of the trigger. this is the basis for people to prefer 1911-style cocked and locked carry. in that case there is a manual safety to release before firing. most da/sa pistols do not have this feature, the cz75 being a famous exception.

on the other hand, the Glock's striker will only move forward after the trigger action disables the firing pin safety and the drop safety, which happens every trigger pull. when the firer pulls the trigger on a Glock, he can feel the resistance created by the system while it disables these safeties.

hth

[socaltrailrider]

I've owned all three. I currently own a 1911 (SA Only), a Glock 34 (Striker Fired) and previously owned a Sig P226 (DA/SA). The Sig was my first handgun purchase before I knew about the differences. After shooting all three, I like the striker fired or SA only pistols way better. I ended up selling the Sig. As much as I tried, I could never get comfortable with the first double action shot, then decided with so many other options out there, why should I have to. I've recently started shooting competitions and there is no way I'd want to do that with a DA/SA pistol. I like the fact that the first trigger pull will be the same as the second.

[bulletblood]

I'd prefer DA/SA if I could conceal carry in this state because of the longer first pull. It's safer to holster and safer against unwanted discharge when the adrenaline is pumping.

I'd prefer a gun with an external safety and perhaps a DA pull for nightstand use. My theory is that it's good to have a safety on when you wake up in the middle of the night all droggy and disoriented. That crashing downstairs in the middle of the night could be a loved one with midnight munchies. If you're in no mind to work a safety then you're in no mind to judge a friendly vs enemy target, in the pitch darkness of the night, with a no-safety stiker fired pistol

Striker or SA for target and sport.

[M. D. Van Norman]

Like I said earlier, training is key.

[hardlyworking]

Alright this makes a lot more sense now, I'm going to recap to see if I've got it down:

Stiker-Style/Glock: Cocked/Loaded has internal safeties to prevent accidental discharge on a dropped weapon. "Relatively" safe to leave on a nightstand/holster in condition 0. Advantage here is trigger is always the same, if generally rougher than an SA trigger.

SAO/1911: Cocked/Loaded requires thumb-safety to achieve above levels of AD prevention, but will generally have a smoother/lighter/better trigger when the hammer is back. Advantage here is very nice trigger but more is required of you mentally when the chips are down.

DA/SA/Sig: See above (1911) only it also adds a DoubleAction pull so that one does not need to remember to thumb-off the safety, but your shot/trigger sequence requires more training to be mastered. Advantage here fixes the "I forgot to turn off the safety why won't this goddamn thing FIRE" problem by allowing somewhat ragged (relative to training) first shot

DAO/LCR: No safeties, hammer sits on an empty/spent/live chamber and only with a long + deliberate trigger pull does the cylinder rotate into firing position plus cocking the hammer prior to sear releasing the hammer to fall. Advantage here... forces you to learn good trigger control? Somebody here mentioned this type of gun as a "belly gun": something you can keep in a jacket pocket and even fire FROM said pocket if your assailant is right in your face with no slides to actuate.

[e90bmw]

So I own DA/SA pistols (S&W and Star).
I also own a Springfield XD.

I know people that own 1911 that allow "cocked and locked" position.
They carry them like that.

I personally don't find DA/SA a problem.
The first pull if the safety has been on is just longer.
If I'm going to shoot a GB as long as I can place at the center of mass then it's no issue.

My XD is consistent because there is no cocked vs un-cocked position.
A DAO will be similar to a striker fired pistol.

It's all a matter of practice.

[sharxbyte]

My Beretta Px4 is a DA/SA hammer. That means that I can turn the safety off, and pull the trigger, and as long as a round is in the chamber, it will fire. Pulling the trigger makes the hammer come back, and then drops the hammer, striking the firing pin. I can also fire it as a single action, by pulling the hammer back manually (which would also happen if I rack the slide, or fire the first shot in DA.) This reduces the trigger pull #, and length by about half, because I don't need to pull the hammer back with the trigger. This DA/SA requires that the first shot be deliberate (long trigger pull, heavier #) and allows any follow-up shots to be much more fluid (shorter, lighter trigger pull.)


Some guns are DAO (double action only) (Glocks, and most other striker-fired pistols IIRC, because they don't have a hammer) and some (primarily old revolvers) are SAO (single action only).

ETA: I guess striker isn't considered DAO?

When I carry, I carry with a round in the chamber, and the safety off, but with the hammer forward. This is the same as carrying a DAO pistol (glock's don't have a manual safety, other than the trigger). The long, heavy trigger pull of my first shot, along with proper trigger/muzzle control is my safety. As was stated above, many firearms such as the 1911 can be cocked and locked, but since mine has a decocker, this isn't an option.


Correct me if I forgot anything, or got something incorrect.