LEM? Interesting conversation

[RoundEye]

When you go to pre-cock you get both, the 5# weight and the standard SA pull for even the first round (same as Glock).

You cannot have even in principle a setup where you "decock to pre-cock" by lowering the hammer to some intermediate position resulting in light initial DA pull followed by *different* SA pull. To see why, consider that any pre-cock is gone after you dry fire, so at that time you'll always go to the original full DA pull. It's this DA pull that would have to be very light in order to achieve proper DA/SA the way you want it.

As even more thread hijacking, SIG makes the DAK trigger which supposedly solves this initial DA pull weight problem through mechanical leverage, so you get close to what you envision. I've never fired or held a DAK trigger, so I cannot really comment.

As the thread jacking continues. Sorry OP

OK, on a P2K (V3), there are "three stages" for the hammer:

1.) Hammer down (where the hammer would rest after the trigger was pulled and no round went off)
2.) Pre-Cock (where the hammer sits after using the decocking lever or what I have been considering the initial DA pull)
3.) Cocked (SA Pull).

I am not hugely worried about misfires, so the "double strike" capability is a nice to have, but is not really what I am referring to. If you were carrying a P2K, the hammer would be in precock, and this is the pull that I would like to lower from it's current down to about 5#s or so leaving the SA pull (cocked hammer) the same as it currently is. I really don't want to go LEM as I like the DA/SA and decocking features.

[IVC]

All good except (2).

The pre-cock is a state of the *internal* hammer, not the 1911-like little half-cock that you can feel when you pull the trigger in DA and to which you decock. This half-cock is so close to the "hammer down" that it's inconsequential.

The LEM hammer is hollow inside and contains a "cocking piece" which will be pre-tensioned and will contain energy required to strike the firing pin. This internal hammer cannot be decocked at all (even if you keep the V1 detent). If the hammer was solid, it would actually stick out in fully cocked position when pre-cocked. The force used to "finish the pull" goes against the trigger reset spring and, to lesser extent, against the firing pin block spring.

The LEM hammer setup is similar to Chiappa Rhino or AR-15 in that it operates like a charging handle. Also, the trigger pull is the typical 2-stage - light first stage to clear the springs (except the hammer spring which is already under tension) and the heavy sear release.

The proper DA pull (without pre-cock) is going to be a challenge due to simple physics. To get the hammer to strike hard, it has to store energy in the spring. In proper DA mode, you're supplying this energy only through the pull of the trigger. Since energy will be a product of pull length and pull weight (work = energy), to halve the weight you'll have to double the travel. I'm not sure that can be done in an HK.

Also, you couldn't have a meaningful double stage trigger since a light first stage would not store nearly enough energy to fire a round and you'd have to have an impossibly heavy second stage.

That's why I'm interested in seeing if there is some non-HK trick that can accomplish what you're trying to do (would require constant weight on the trigger and long travel).

[Edwood]

I kind of liked the trigger pull feel of the V1 P2000SK. Quite a long pull, but very light and smooth. As mentioned before, it's not a true DAO trigger. It feels much like 2 stage Single Action, but with a much longer pre travel stage.

I'm debating converting my HK54c to light LEM.

I might convert my USP 45 to LEM Match Hybrid if I do.