LEM? Interesting conversation

[IVC]

I love P2K, and would love to be able to compete with a GLOCK on the first pull.

That's precisely what LEM will do. Ignore the double strike capability and it will behave exactly like a Glock, including the comparable trigger weight.

They are internally very similar too, as both are under tension when the round is chambered and the trigger pull is used to "finish the strike." It's only the double strike capability in LEM that is extra. Otherwise, LEM and DA/SA are very different in how they work, weight, etc.

OP, sorry for thread hijack.

[RoundEye]

That's precisely what LEM will do. Ignore the double strike capability and it will behave exactly like a Glock, including the comparable trigger weight.

They are internally very similar too, as both are under tension when the round is chambered and the trigger pull is used to "finish the strike." It's only the double strike capability in LEM that is extra. Otherwise, LEM and DA/SA are very different in how they work, weight, etc.

OP, sorry for thread hijack.

But the factory pull on a GLOCK is 5.5#s, and you said that the LEM wasn't even near that. I still like the DA/SA capability, I just want to lower the DA pull by like 3#s or so.

[Blownmotor]

But the factory pull on a GLOCK is 5.5#s, and you said that the LEM wasn't even near that. I still like the DA/SA capability, I just want to lower the DA pull by like 3#s or so.

Have you looked into HK's Combat Competition triggers or maybe a Match trigger? What HK is it for?

Oh and my P30 "lite" LEM comes in at 5lb after it was worn in.

[IVC]

But the factory pull on a GLOCK is 5.5#s, and you said that the LEM wasn't even near that. I still like the DA/SA capability, I just want to lower the DA pull by like 3#s or so.

Oh and my P30 "lite" LEM comes in at 5lb after it was worn in.

The LEM *double strike* is not even close to it, but the pre-cocked pull can be very light (see the number by Blownmotor above). That "double strike" is what Glock lacks in the first place and if you run HK the same way as Glock, you'll never use it. You cannot decock a LEM action and the pull is indeed consistent and light from first pull to the last.

[RoundEye]

Have you looked into HK's Combat Competition triggers or maybe a Match trigger? What HK is it for?

Oh and my P30 "lite" LEM comes in at 5lb after it was worn in.

I'm thinking for my P2K.

The LEM *double strike* is not even close to it, but the pre-cocked pull can be very light (see the number by Blownmotor above). That "double strike" is what Glock lacks in the first place and if you run HK the same way as Glock, you'll never use it. You cannot decock a LEM action and the pull is indeed consistent and light from first pull to the last.

I think I get what you're saying about the "double strike" vs. "pre-cocked". Like if you're dry firing or if there was a misfire or something. Similar to the two stages in the DA/SA hammer. I don't think I really want to go LEM, I would ideally like to reduce the pull of DA down to about 5lbs, and then keep SA as it is.

[Blownmotor]

The LEM *double strike* is not even close to it, but the pre-cocked pull can be very light (see the number by Blownmotor above). That "double strike" is what Glock lacks in the first place and if you run HK the same way as Glock, you'll never use it. You cannot decock a LEM action and the pull is indeed consistent and light from first pull to the last.

Pretty much if the hammer spring is not pre-cocked in a LEM gun it would be your typical double action pull which is approximately 10 to 12lbs on a HK.

Once you cycle the slide, the hammer spring becomes "pre-cocked" and there you would have that light trigger pull. The LEM trigger is something you would have to experience for yourself in order to understand it. Maybe YouTube can help.

[Blownmotor]

I'm thinking for my P2K.



I think I get what you're saying about the "double strike" vs. "pre-cocked". Like if you're dry firing or if there was a misfire or something. Similar to the two stages in the DA/SA hammer. I don't think I really want to go LEM, I would ideally like to reduce the pull of DA down to about 5lbs, and then keep SA as it is.

Not sure if it's possible to reduce the initial DA pull. For most HK owners generally go LEM. HK has Match trigger parts available. Not sure for the P2000 though. Mainly for USPs and HK45/45c.

BTW majtom94 totally got his thread jacked.

[IVC]

I'm thinking for my P2K.

P2000 is a modern HK, so all of these modifications can be done.

I think I get what you're saying about the "double strike" vs. "pre-cocked". Like if you're dry firing or if there was a misfire or something. Similar to the two stages in the DA/SA hammer. I don't think I really want to go LEM, I would ideally like to reduce the pull of DA down to about 5lbs, and then keep SA as it is.

Yes, that's how it works, but I see what you want - a proper DA/SA. It will be interesting to see how low you can go with that initial DA after decocking.

As Blownmotor points out, try LEM before deciding. It's an interesting concept, particularly since you can play with the springs and adjust a lot of it yourself.

[IVC]

BTW majtom94 totally got his thread jacked.

Sorry OP.

[9mmepiphany]

I have been meaning to meet with Bruce Gray the next time I am in CO to do his shorter reset work.

Bruce is actually in OR...eastern OR.

...or you could check with Scott at Apex Tactical and see if he has any time to do H&K work. You can tell him I referred you

[RoundEye]

Bruce is actually in OR...eastern OR.

...or you could check with Scott at Apex Tactical and see if he has any time to do H&K work. You can tell him I referred you

Hmmm.. I must be thinking of someone else that was recommended on HKPro that was in the Denver area. The name sounded familiar, so I just assumed it was him. At the time I was looking primarily just to get the trigger reset shortened. I'll take a look at Apex.

[Dhena81]

The LEM *double strike* is not even close to it, but the pre-cocked pull can be very light (see the number by Blownmotor above). That "double strike" is what Glock lacks in the first place and if you run HK the same way as Glock, you'll never use it. You cannot decock a LEM action and the pull is indeed consistent and light from first pull to the last.

If you rely on a second strike to set off a primer your doing it wrong. Having a double strike capability is not a feature if anything it will create training scars. If you even have any intent on using a pistol in a defensive roll its a personal liability to not practice a tap rack when your gun goes click.

I'm thinking for my P2K.



I think I get what you're saying about the "double strike" vs. "pre-cocked". Like if you're dry firing or if there was a misfire or something. Similar to the two stages in the DA/SA hammer. I don't think I really want to go LEM, I would ideally like to reduce the pull of DA down to about 5lbs, and then keep SA as it is.

If you want the DA trigger to be down to 5lbs in a SA/DA gun its not going to reliably set off anything but the softest primers. If your looking for a 5lb pull you should look into a SAO gun or a striker fired gun or in this case the LEM light. The selling point with the LEM other than consistent trigger pulls is the main spring housing is pre cocked so when you release the 12lbs of tension with your 5lb trigger pull it will set off even the hardest primers.

[IVC]

If you rely on a second strike to set off a primer your doing it wrong. Having a double strike capability is not a feature if anything it will create training scars. If you even have any intent on using a pistol in a defensive roll its a personal liability to not practice a tap rack when your gun goes click.

Heh, I was trying to avoid any discussion of that type, just conveying the difference in operation and at what point LEM gets very heavy regardless of whether it's "light LEM" or "heavy LEM." Serves me well for mentioning Glock.

[RoundEye]

So much confusing terminology.

So I'm not looking for 5# from a second strike perspective as I know that would be hard. The precock or decock position to fire at 5# would be perfect and then the standard SA pull. With DA/SA there is such a heavy pull it just kills me to get the first shot off quickly and accurately.

[IVC]

The precock or decock position to fire at 5# would be perfect and then the standard SA pull.

When you go to pre-cock you get both, the 5# weight and the standard SA pull for even the first round (same as Glock).

You cannot have even in principle a setup where you "decock to pre-cock" by lowering the hammer to some intermediate position resulting in light initial DA pull followed by *different* SA pull. To see why, consider that any pre-cock is gone after you dry fire, so at that time you'll always go to the original full DA pull. It's this DA pull that would have to be very light in order to achieve proper DA/SA the way you want it.

As even more thread hijacking, SIG makes the DAK trigger which supposedly solves this initial DA pull weight problem through mechanical leverage, so you get close to what you envision. I've never fired or held a DAK trigger, so I cannot really comment.