Question about FFL's PPT?

[Rambo, John J.]

Sounds like it's Insight Shooting Range in Artesia. Bwahahahahaha.

[limitdown]

It's illegal for an FFL to only process PPT's during certain hours or days (ie, they must process PPT's anytime during their normal operating hours. So they can't make you wait any longer than a normal purchase from the dealer's inventory).
PPT's don't require any additional ID documentation compared to a regular purchase from the FFL's inventory. If your valid CA driver's license shows your current address then you may purchase from the FFL's own inventory, so you may also do a PPT.

Some shops are notorious for making it a hassle for you to do a PPT because they make less profit than if you bought from their inventory. It also doesn't help digest/move their inventory.


The maximum fee any FFL can charge for a PPT transfer per firearm is $10! (this is lower than I thought!)
There's no way to avoid the $25 DROS for a regular nor a PPT.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.php#9

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/ab106faqs.php#2

Under California Law (Penal Code section 12082), a firearms dealer may not refuse to conduct a private party transfer. However, private parties must demonstrate compliance with the FSD requirements before the firearms dealer may deliver the firearm. If the purchaser is unable to demonstrate compliance with the FSD requirement, the firearm should be returned to the seller.


Firearms dealers are required to process private party transfers upon request. Firearms dealers may charge a fee not to exceed $10 per firearm for conducting a private party transfer. Example:

For a private party transfer involving one or more handguns, the total allowable fees, including the DROS, safety, and dealer transfer fees, are not to exceed $35.00 for the first handgun and $31.00 for each additional handgun involved in the same transaction.
For private party transfers involving one or more long guns, or a private party transfer involving one handgun, the total allowable fees, including the DROS, safety, and dealer transfer fees, are not to exceed $35.00. The dealer may charge an additional dealer-service fee of$10.00 per each additional firearm transferred.
(PC section 12072(d))

[wsmc27]

Ah thanks for addtl infos. Good to learn something new every day.

fwiw, despite being a rifle/pistol owner for several decades, we just did our first ppt in December '12. Great experience at RifleGear, they were happy to assist, handled everything really well imo, and both I and the other CG'er were pleased.

Best to OP in finding satisfaction.

[zurppin]

Yelp is a beautiful thing. Spend your money elsewhere

[JosephP]

Thanks for the all the info guys...

[paul0660]

Would you dine at a restaurant that ignored food safety regulations?

Sure, if it was clean, cheap, and good. I bet I break a few rules in my kitchen.

Did you submit a written request to do a PPT?

A little known factoid.

[JoshuaS]

It is important to remember that FFLs generally lose money on PPTs, spending 4x as much on paperwork and manhours as they get from you. So I understand the inclination to worm their way out of it.

I like what the guy at my LGS said once when I did a PPT...remember, we lose money on this, but I am doing this because I like you, and want to help our customers...and also because I have to by law...mostly the last part.

[Cyc Wid It]

I don't get it. If you want to open an FFL, you know going into it that PPT's are part of the deal. If you don't want to do PPT's, then don't get into the business. For as much as gun shops ***** and moan about "foot traffic" and not publishing deals to try and get people in the door, they really don't understand how to retain and attract customers.

It does not take a competent employee more than a few minutes to complete a PPT provided the customers have their information ready. Then again, if your employees type with their index fingers only and don't know how to use the software, I can see why this would require "many man hours".

If people visit a shop for the first time to do a PPT and the employees aren't total dicks, who knows, maybe someone might come back and "make it worth their while". SMH.

[SMR510]

I still don't completely understand how they are losing money on them anyways. I wish people were mandated to use my service even for only $10, the problem is that they are all slow as hell and what should take 15 min. takes 30 min. to an hour. Also, typically there is at least one employee standing around or BSing with someone who is not going to spend any money, that is the guy that is costing you money not me.

IDK if there are rules about helping more than one customer fill out paperwork at one time but if not then give the dude his paperwork help the next guy in line, pick up paperwork when it is done and you are GTG. You dont need to stand there and watch me fill out a form.

Surely you arent going to make a killing on PPT's alone but I also dont think that you are going to go bankrupt by having to do them. Efficiency is key, if you are efficient you should at least break even on them.

I also agree that it creates nice foot traffic and if I am there for a PPT I may also need some ammo for my new toy if I am the buyer or I might want to get rid of the cash I just got if I am the seller by buying a new toy.

[kpblade]

Sounds like Ade's in Orange.No forgot they wont do them at all.

I've done a few PPT transfer at Ades, mainly before they switched locations. Have they changed recently?

[bug_eyedmonster]

I dont understand what the problem is. I've had to do a PPT once, it was busy at the FFL, and was asked to either come back later or bring it to another location. They were busy with sales, and did not have the ability to get to it right away. If a place of business is busy making sales, I would not ask them to stop making money to accommodate someone who isn't going to be making them any money. It's their choice. They never said they wouldn't do it in your case, they simply say that they will only do it on a certain day of the week. I've seen signs at certain FFLs that state that they will not accept a PPT after a certain time, otherwise, they will accept it. I've seen places that only take cash for the same transactions. Don't like the rules, too bad, take the advice of others and take your $10 transaction somewhere else that is willing to do it when you want.

/Rant over.

[Army]

I dont understand what the problem is. I've had to do a PPT once, it was busy at the FFL, and was asked to either come back later or bring it to another location.

/Rant over.

You are correct, you don't understand. Ignorant liberal pukes in Sacramento have FORCED you/us to take all firearms transactions/trades/sales between unrelated law abiding citizens to a FFL dealer for a fee/tax/extortion, in clear violation of the 2nd Amendment law of "Shall Not Be Infringed".

A dealer MUST/HAS TO/IS REQUIRED perform a PPT UPON REQUEST/ASKED/INFORMED OF INTENT during his NORMAL/REGULAR/9 TO 5/DAILY business hours, and cannot charge more than $10...PERIOD.

This dealer is in violation of the law. The same damn law WE/YOU/US must abide by.

Understand now?

[rdavenport]

Sounds like Canyon sports

[Cyc Wid It]

I dont understand what the problem is. I've had to do a PPT once, it was busy at the FFL, and was asked to either come back later or bring it to another location. They were busy with sales, and did not have the ability to get to it right away. If a place of business is busy making sales, I would not ask them to stop making money to accommodate someone who isn't going to be making them any money. It's their choice. They never said they wouldn't do it in your case, they simply say that they will only do it on a certain day of the week. I've seen signs at certain FFLs that state that they will not accept a PPT after a certain time, otherwise, they will accept it. I've seen places that only take cash for the same transactions. Don't like the rules, too bad, take the advice of others and take your $10 transaction somewhere else that is willing to do it when you want.

/Rant over.

Do you still work at Bullseye? I couldn't care less about all of those cases you mentioned - they are all still in the wrong. I would take my $10 and go somewhere else and file a report.

[bug_eyedmonster]

You are correct, you don't understand. Ignorant liberal pukes in Sacramento have FORCED you/us to take all firearms transactions/trades/sales between unrelated law abiding citizens to a FFL dealer for a fee/tax/extortion, in clear violation of the 2nd Amendment law of "Shall Not Be Infringed".

A dealer MUST/HAS TO/IS REQUIRED perform a PPT UPON REQUEST/ASKED/INFORMED OF INTENT during his NORMAL/REGULAR/9 TO 5/DAILY business hours, and cannot charge more than $10...PERIOD.

This dealer is in violation of the law. The same damn law WE/YOU/US must abide by.

Understand now?

I understood the several other times it was communicated previous to your comment, but that doesn't make it right to kick and scream. You must not understand what I was trying to say... There are people who feel self-entitled to certain things, and these are the same people who have no respect for someone on the other side of the counter. I'm not going to try to re-explain my point, as you clearly didn't understand it the first time around.

Jerry