Ithaca 1911 failure to feed

[Cameron]

Hi guys, just picked up my first 1911, it's an Ithaca 1911 from 1945 that is mostly unmolested except for aftermarket sights and a drop in trigger. I stripped it, and gave it coat of oil, and loaded my first magazine. I inserted the magazine on an open slide, pulled the slide back to release the catch and let it drive itself home, except the bullet nosed down and jammed up. I took the gun fully apart and cleaned every peice and tried again, this time it only seems to jam up about 50% of the time. It also seems to jam less if I have 5 or less rounds in the magazine. I noticed the frame ramp is not the smoothest - would polishing this help guide the bullet up the ramp? I also have no idea how old the recoil spring is and I would like the change it. What weight would be the best for reliability? Or am I going in the wrong direction and is this ammunition related? My dad has some Federal ball I could try.

I'm using Fiocci 230gr. ball and brand new Kimber 7 round factory mags. I've also tried CMC 8 rounders, and a USGI mag and had the same problem.

Thanks guys

[razr]

I have never had any luck with Fiocchi ammo, handgun or shot gun. Heres another issue. I am going to say this and a couple of people are going to hammer me by saying, I shoot mine daily. A 1945 Ithaca is a collector grade even if its been modified and should not be shot. One squib round and your gun is bye-bye. Its yours, do as you wish. But if you must shoot it try Win White box. Good luck!

[Cameron]

Just out of curiosity, what is an Ithaca 1911 worth? The guy at the shop who sold it to me told me it is an Ithaca/Essex, which according to my research is not collector grade and I feel like I paid accordingly, but when I got it home I looked up the serial and it falls within the 1945 range of 1911A1 (Ithaca #2075104-2134403) according to http://www.coolgunsite.com/pistols/c...production.htm.

If it truly is a collector grade item, I'd really hate to shoot it and damage it, but on the other hand I'd hate to let go of it. I guess that just means I'll have to buy another gun?

[NewbieDave]

If you don't know the history on it and you want to make it work... change out main spring and try a different magazine. Also, make sure there's a little gap between the feed ramp and the throat of the barrel.



If that gap is missing and the feed ramp connects to the throat like a single poliched ramp... you have a issue. Polishing the feed ramp and the face of the beech would be a good idea also.

~dpc

[Cameron]

I guess I'll bust out the emery cloth tonight and see if I can improve it.

[razr]

From your serial number it falls under the 5th contract. Its hard to tell what it is worth w/o pictures. Parts were intermixed back then and WW1 surplus was used as well. They were the only M1911A1 maker other than Colt and like many others had manufacturing issues, blah blah blah...

Most GI guns and parts are solid for much of the guns life. Eventual peening of locking lugs inside the slide is possible since GI slides are softer than modern post war commercial pistols.

[Cameron]

So a quick update, after letting this pistol sit overnight after cleaning, the oil seems to have worked itself in, and the pistol would cycle the first round from a magazine about 75% of the time. I think a good polish of the frame ramp and breech face will right things.

I also did some comparisons to some GI guns, and it looked like the ejection port has aslo been lowered, and the grip safety/beavertail is aftermarket. It does appear to have the original finish though. I'll try and find my camera and take some pics of the gun and hopefully get them up soon.

[Cameron]

Just an update on things, I took some 2000 grit sandpaper to the frame ramp and breech-face and polished things up a bit, then hit it again with 2000 wet to get a near mirror finish. I cleaned and relubed the gun again, and then tried again. It now cycles absolutely amazing. I can slowly close the slide on a full mag and the bullet slips right into place. I guess all she needed was some a little love and elbow grease. My dad and I are going to the range tomorrow to it out, I'll try and return with a full range report.

[jdberger]

Well, now you're oblilgated to post pics.

Lots o' them.

[cineski]

If the round is nosing down it's a weak magazine spring issue. Get a Chip McCormick PowerMag magazine and all should be fine.

[morrcarr67]

They were the only M1911A1 maker other than Colt and like many others had manufacturing issues, blah blah blah...

Who told you that? The 1911A1 was introduced in 1927 and continued into 1945.

In 1942 Singer and H&R both made 1911A1's for the US government.

In 1943 Union Switch & Signal (US&S) and Remington Rand made 1911A1's for the US government.

In 1944 and 1945 Remington Rand made 1911A1's for the US government.

Between 1943 and 1945 both Itacha and Remington Rand were helping out Colt in making the 1911A1 on a large scale. Over that time Itacha made 351,553 1911A1's. Remington Rand made 833,825 1911A1's.

So, not only was Itacha not the only other company making them they didn't even make the most out of the other companies making them.

[Kruzr]

You need to replace the recoil spring with a 16# Gov't size spring. You should also replace the mainspring with a 21# spring and the firing pin spring.

Those are the first things you do with a used 1911. Chances are the gun didn't need any polishing. The mil spec guns were plenty loose to allow proper feeding of ball ammo.

[eaglemike]

16# recoil spring is too light for mil-spec 230 gr, such as the Fiocchi. Frame and lugs will take a serious battering using this with the 230 grain. If you are shooting milder loads - fine. Hopefully the recoil spring has been replaced - a 1945 spring is no bueno by now. Mil-spec recoil spring is maybe 22lb. I know I built a lot of guns for shooting lighter 185 and 200 gr loads, and used the 16.

18# mainspring will lighten trigger pull, but unless decent trigger work has been done, you'll likely feel the creep.

Too bad the sights were replaced as far as value. If it's a Essex frame and Ithaca slide, you just have a shooter, pretty much no add'l collector value.

Remember hand cycling is of limited value as far as testing cycling. Proper way to load first round is pull slide back and release it at full rearward travel by letting you hand slide off the back. Don't do this when firearm is empty though. It should also feed when the slide is dropped by thumbing down slide release.

ETA: found some old notes - ran a 20lb recoil with full power 230 ball.

[Kruzr]

Gov't spec is 16# recoil spring for ball ammo. In fact, the Gov't dwgs for guns like this Ithaca call out the spring by wire diameter, number of coils and rate. It works out to just under 16#.

Spec mainspring is 23#. Baers, Browns and Wilson's use 21#. The mainspring contributes very litte to the trigger pull on a 1911. It adds less than a pound total and by lightening the mainspring you may gain 4 or 5 oz. The sear spring (which you may want to replace also) is what sets the tension on the sear and trigger.

You can find light strikes from time to time with a spring less than 20# with some primers, like Winchester.

BTW, Fiocchi is loaded hot, in all calibers.

[eaglemike]

I've never had a problem setting off Winchester primers, even with an 18# mainspring. Primers must be properly seated of course. It also helps to have the hammer NOT drag on the frame or slide. I've seen a few guns that needed fixing in this area.

I disagree on how much lightening the mainspring helps. I've seen stock Colt's and SA that would pretty much give a person blood blisters out of the box. After dropping to an 18 or 19 the trigger became a lot easier to control.

I've also had try to fix guns where people ran too light of a recoil spring - hence my reluctance to run a 16 for full power 230 ball.

Long ago I had one of the first steel Para-Ord frames I'd built into a .45 race gun. Lightened slide, the whole works, running 155 SWC at 185 pf. Ran out of ammo and shot some 230 ball to finish. Ouch!