M&P vs GLOCK

[HK Dave]

You're looking for the most reliable pistol, you've found it... it's the Glock you've been looking at.

[Shenaniguns]

It's easy to remove, and indeed you really must remove it if you plan to dry fire at all. Many HOWTO documents and videos available. Took me about 15 minutes including the time spent finding a suitable spring in my parts bin. And it's completely reversible.



*Ahem* I respectfully disagree. They are about the same in terms of disassembly although Glock does have fewer parts. The M&P even comes with the frame tool built in to the grip! What are you going to use on the Glock if you're out in the field?

Both are much easier than something like a CZ75.

What can I use? Keys, a pen, knife etc... But why would I be "out in the field" and need to field strip it? I'd rather grab a spare gun in that condition. Good luck not losing the sear spring on the M&P "in the field".

[tbhracing]

Just a heads up, but something may feel great in your hand yet shoot horribly.

This. ^^^^^


For me, I love Glocks and not a big fan of S&W.

[tacticalcity]

I don't care if you never bought into the "hype", I've read many of your posts and your reasoning is more emotionally based then logical. Glocks are one of the top defensive handguns out there period and are much simpler then the M&P on the fire control, I also prefer the Carbon Steel Tenifer (QPQ) setup over M&P's Stainless Melonite setup. That being said, I shoot the M&P in less than 2,000 rounds as well as my old Glock 34 which I've shot as much as 9,000 rounds in one year. Now if I could not modify the gun for whatever reason, I'd pick a 9mm Glock over the M&P.

+100

The Glock is an exceptional firearm. Once somebody starts bashing a Glock (and actually means it and is not just trying to stir things up), it is impossible to take anything else they say seriously. Bear in mind, I am one of the converted. Before I had any training I hated Glocks. Once I got some training, and learned how to tell what makes a great firearm and what makes a lousy one, I fell in love with the Glock.

The Glock might be ugly, boxy, and plastic but the simplicity of it is design and ease of use makes it the ideal handgun when your life is on the line. The so-called "Glock Killers" are all very nice handguns, but the closer you look at their design and functionality none have knocked Glock off the top of the mountain. There is always at least one truly critical area (usually trigger reset) where the Glock still out shines them.

Anybody who cannot stand a Glock and does not at least respect and admire it is simply untrained. Take an entry level 4 Day Defensive Handgun course with a Glock and shoot side by side with somebody with the same skill level who is shooting something else, and watch the Glock shine.

If you are just plinking at the range, you will not get to see the areas where a Glock truly excels. First, because range rules prevent you from shooting properly. Second, because it is too easy to cheat and stack things in the favor of a non-defense minded gun that you want to win in a non-structured plinking environment. Third, because if you do not know to test the firearms realistically and how to exploit things like trigger reset or how to properly draw from a holster, or how to fire controlled pairs and non-standard responses, and on and on then you have no clue how to tell which gun is better beyond the meaningless and superficial characteristics such as looks.

I constantly hear people say "which gun feels better in your hand" or "try them out at your local range" but neither of those take into account the truly important things like how does the action work, how easy is the trigger to master, how complicated are the controls, and so forth. If you don't know what to look for, you simply don't know how to compare them. And most people offering advice here on Calguns and other forums don't know what to look for.

So my advice, especially for those people considering radically different guns (which the OP is not), before buying a gun people should take a course from a school that also rents guns. Odds are they will have one of the guns you were interested in available for rent. Odds are another student in the course will have another gun on your list. Line up next to him while training. Which one of you is struggling with the gun's controls? Which one of you is fighting the gun vs. just having the normal learning curve issues? Which one of you finds defensive shooting easier and is it you, the gun or both that is playing the biggest factor in that? The upside is not only do you get to see which firearm will work better for you but when you do purchase a handgun you will actually know how to use it.

Not to sound like snob, but very few people have any clue how to use their firearms beyond plinking at the range. It is a lot more fun and a lot safer to be one of the few trained guys than one of the untrained guys. No matter how trained you get, there is always room for improvement, but just one basic course will make a night and day difference in your abilities.

Now, for the OP. The Glock and M&P are very similar with regards to design and performance. The M&P I tested had a TERRIBLE reset. However I am told there is an aftermarket fix for that. I have not tried that fix, so I cannot say. Even so the M&P is so similar to a Glock that it is really hard to tell a difference in their performance unless you really know what you are looking for, and even then you could go back and forth on which is better. So I would definately take it over something like a Sig. Which ever one you choose, you will do fine. Me, I would go with the Glock. But the M&P is a perfectly acceptable option as well. You are basically comparing two shades of the same color and asking which is better. Now if you were comparing two completely different colors, it would be easier to argue in favor of one or the other with hard reasons and justifications as to why.

[eastershawn]

when i bought my first handgun, i was sold on the xd based on the specs and features, even the look, when i held one, i didnt like it, i really liked the way the m&p felt in my hand, and hated the way the glock felt, luckily the range next to my house, insight in artisia, had all three for rent, i shot all three, and shot the best with the glock. go figure. on top of all that, all the other polymer guns basically copied the glock. glock was the original, so i went with that and was happy, until i shot a 1911, so i sold the glock and now have a 1911 and it is a pleasure to shoot. try one out, but if not, get the glock, its tried and true

[tacticalcity]

when i bought my first handgun, i was sold on the xd based on the specs and features, even the look, when i held one, i didnt like it, i really liked the way the m&p felt in my hand, and hated the way the glock felt, luckily the range next to my house, insight in artisia, had all three for rent, i shot all three, and shot the best with the glock. go figure. on top of all that, all the other polymer guns basically copied the glock. glock was the original, so i went with that and was happy, until i shot a 1911, so i sold the glock and now have a 1911 and it is a pleasure to shoot. try one out, but if not, get the glock, its tried and true

The M&P wins the "how does it feel test". XD also wins that test for a lot of people. The plinking on the range test is usually a crap shoot. Once you learn about exploiting trigger reset and how important that is with regards to balancing speed and accuracy the Glock wins every time. But again, I am told there is an aftermarket trigger for M&P that has an excellent reset. I have yet to put it to the test, but a lot of trained guys here rave about it. For concealed carry the Walther PPS is an intriguing option. It has a trigger reset that is about the same length as the XD, which I am not crazy about, however it is not too bad. And unlike a Glock, it has very narrow frame that does not print during concealed carry. It is not on the roster, but some shops offer single shot conversions for the DROS process that you can immediately undo once you take possession of it. So if daily concealed carry is a must that is a gun to consider. For a duty gun (open carry) I still prefer the Glock. But a Glock has a very thick frame that is hard to hide.

The 1911 is an amazing platform and easy to conceal with regards to printing compared to a Glock. However, it too has a long list of flaws. It is very heavy (arguably too heavy for daily concealed carry if you have an all steel frame), has a low magazine capacity, has a thumb safety which arguably slows you down even with its lighter/smoother trigger pull, and it requires constant upkeep (polishing of various surface areas) to keep it feeding non-ball ammo reliably. Even with those flaws, I still LOVE the 1911. My point is not to bash it, but to point out that there is a pretty strong argument to be made for the Glock over a 1911 especially as a duty weapon. The strongest of which is that little to no upkeep is needed to keep it running reliably. You still need to clean a Glock, but that is all you need to do.

Without question my two favorite handguns are the Glock and the 1911, but in that order. Granted I am new to the 1911 owners club. The main thing that I like about them both is that they offer the same trigger pull start to finish and they both have a very short trigger reset. Those are the two main things I look for in gun, as they are critical when it comes to getting the gun out of the holster and well placed shots on target as fast a possible. When it comes to just the trigger the 1911 wins hands down. When it comes to printing during concealed carry the 1911 wins hands down but the weight of the 1911 almost makes it a wash as to whether the 1911 or Glock is better for that. I cannot stress enough how surprisingly heavy and 1911 is. You look at it on a table, then go to pick it up, and the weight catches you completely off guard. Of course, aluminum frame versions are lighter (not as light as a polymer gun). But the majority of the 1911s on the roster are steel framed versions. That added weight does help with recoil control, but pulls your paints down and is very uncomfortable during concealed carry. Magazine capacity is a big issue for a duty weapon and the Glock wins that one hands down. If I did not need to conceal it then the added magazine capacity, reliability, ease of maintenance, and ease of use (no thumb safety) all make the Glock a better choice.

[tbhracing]

^^^ Very WELL written posting. Wish I wrote that.

[Shenaniguns]

I agree with Tactical City, if i had time I'd bring in one of my M&P's to let you try out the trigger

[eastershawn]

The M&P wins the "how does it feel test". XD also wins that test for a lot of people. The plinking on the range test is usually a crap shoot. Once you learn about exploiting trigger reset and how important that is with regards to balancing speed and accuracy the Glock wins every time. But again, I am told there is an aftermarket trigger for M&P that has an excellent reset. I have yet to put it to the test, but a lot of trained guys here rave about it.

The 1911 is an amazing platform. However, it too has a long list of flaws. It is heavy, has a low capacity, has a tumb safety which arguably slows you down even with its lighter/smoother trigger pull, and it requires constant upkeep (polishing of various surface areas) to keep it feeding non-ball ammo reliably. Even with those flaws, I still LOVE the 1911. My point is not to bash it, but to point out that there is a pretty strong argument to be made for the Glock over a 1911. The strongest of which is that little to no upkeep is needed to keep it running reliably.

Without question my two favorite handguns are the Glock and the 1911, but in that order. Granted I am new to the 1911 owners club. The main thing that I like about them both is that they offer the same trigger pull start to finish and they both have a very short trigger pull. When it comes to just the trigger the 1911 wins hands down. When it comes to printing during concealed carry the 1911 wins hands down. But magazine capacity and weight are also concerns and the Glock wins on those. If I did not need to conceal it then the added magazine capacity, reliability, ease of maintence, and ease of use due to the thumb safety issue all make the Glock a better choice.

everything you say is true. maybe thats why im looking to buy a glock again . but seriously, try a 1911, the accuracy is in a whole different class compared to any polymer pistols. thats my take anyway. im not saying you cant be accurate with a polymer pistol, but the 1911 seriously surprised me.

[Shenaniguns]

I should mention that I agree with most of TC's points, but I prefer my M&P's over all of my Glocks except my old 34 that I feel are equal. The fact that my FS9 performs like my 34 in a smaller package makes it a no brainer for me.

[ruchik]

Umm, have you taken one apart? Have you taken a Glock apart? There's way more small pieces in the M&P and it's not as easy to detail strip or assemble. There's no debate about this.

I disagree. I'm sure the OP doesn't really care if it takes 1-2 minutes as opposed to 4 to detail strip a gun. Since I assume he is cleaning it at that point, it doesn't really matter. If, on the other hand, both required a full strip down in order to clear a malfunction under stress, then I would understand. But talking about a few minutes when detail stripping one doesn't seem too relevant. When it comes to stripping it for a basic clean in the field, i.e. taking the slide off, barrel out, etc., then both I believe are fairly straightforward, no tools required.

tacticalcity:

I firmly believe one needs to shoot or at least hold the gun he or she is contemplating purchasing. I am not disagreeing with your post of how important it is to learn reset, techniques, so on and so forth, but surely having a gun that feels "right" to you would only help learning said techniques? Why use a gun that you don't like the feel of and train with that, as opposed to using a gun you do like the feel of? Again, the feel of a trigger, the reset, ease of draw, etc. are all very subjective. What works for you may not work for someone else. What you perceive as a terrible reset may be perfectly acceptable to someone else. Yes, with more experience you will able to tell differences between guns, but at that point you may as well have been training with the gun that felt natural at the start. I'm not bashing Glocks, I believe they are wonderful firearms. But for some, the feel is so unnatural (like me) that they would, as you said, be fighting the firearm. Why train with a gun that you're constantly fighting because it doesn't feel right? You could be that much better using a gun that feels right to you to begin with.

To the OP, ultimately you will buy what makes YOU happy. You will be more inclined to train with it and take pride of ownership in a gun that you truly like.

[Shenaniguns]

I disagree. I'm sure the OP doesn't really care if it takes 1-2 minutes as opposed to 4 to detail strip a gun. Since I assume he is cleaning it at that point, it doesn't really matter. If, on the other hand, both required a full strip down in order to clear a malfunction under stress, then I would understand. But talking about a few minutes when detail stripping one doesn't seem too relevant. When it comes to stripping it for a basic clean in the field, i.e. taking the slide off, barrel out, etc., then both I believe are fairly straightforward, no tools required.

tacticalcity:

Do you even understand what I'm talking about when I say fire control? I'm talking about the sear, springs, plunger, connectors etc...
The M&P is more complicated and has more springs and little pieces compared to a Glock period!

[Sturnovik]

+100

The Glock is an exceptional firearm. Once somebody starts bashing a Glock (and actually means it and is not just trying to stir things up), it is impossible to take anything else they say seriously. Bear in mind, I am one of the converted. Before I had any training I hated Glocks. Once I got some training, and learned how to tell what makes a great firearm and what makes a lousy one, I fell in love with the Glock.

The Glock might be ugly, boxy, and plastic but the simplicity of it is design and ease of use makes it the ideal handgun when your life is on the line. The so-called "Glock Killers" are all very nice handguns, but the closer you look at their design and functionality none have knocked Glock off the top of the mountain. There is always at least one truly critical area (usually trigger reset) where the Glock still out shines them.

Anybody who cannot stand a Glock and does not at least respect and admire it is simply untrained. Take an entry level 4 Day Defensive Handgun course with a Glock and shoot side by side with somebody with the same skill level who is shooting something else, and watch the Glock shine.

If you are just plinking at the range, you will not get to see the areas where a Glock truly excels. First, because range rules prevent you from shooting properly. Second, because it is too easy to cheat and stack things in the favor of a non-defense minded gun that you want to win in a non-structured plinking environment. Third, because if you do not know to test the firearms realistically and how to exploit things like trigger reset or how to properly draw from a holster, or how to fire controlled pairs and non-standard responses, and on and on then you have no clue how to tell which gun is better beyond the meaningless and superficial characteristics such as looks.

I constantly hear people say "which gun feels better in your hand" or "try them out at your local range" but neither of those take into account the truly important things like how does the action work, how easy is the trigger to master, how complicated are the controls, and so forth. If you don't know what to look for, you simply don't know how to compare them. And most people offering advice here on Calguns and other forums don't know what to look for.

So my advice, especially for those people considering radically different guns (which the OP is not), before buying a gun people should take a course from a school that also rents guns. Odds are they will have one of the guns you were interested in available for rent. Odds are another student in the course will have another gun on your list. Line up next to him while training. Which one of you is struggling with the gun's controls? Which one of you is fighting the gun vs. just having the normal learning curve issues? Which one of you finds defensive shooting easier and is it you, the gun or both that is playing the biggest factor in that? The upside is not only do you get to see which firearm will work better for you but when you do purchase a handgun you will actually know how to use it.

Not to sound like snob, but very few people have any clue how to use their firearms beyond plinking at the range. It is a lot more fun and a lot safer to be one of the few trained guys than one of the untrained guys. No matter how trained you get, there is always room for improvement, but just one basic course will make a night and day difference in your abilities.

Now, for the OP. The Glock and M&P are very similar with regards to design and performance. The M&P I tested had a TERRIBLE reset. However I am told there is an aftermarket fix for that. I have not tried that fix, so I cannot say. Even so the M&P is so similar to a Glock that it is really hard to tell a difference in their performance unless you really know what you are looking for, and even then you could go back and forth on which is better. So I would definately take it over something like a Sig. Which ever one you choose, you will do fine. Me, I would go with the Glock. But the M&P is a perfectly acceptable option as well. You are basically comparing two shades of the same color and asking which is better. Now if you were comparing two completely different colors, it would be easier to argue in favor of one or the other with hard reasons and justifications as to why.

I completely agree 100%. Bashing aside, they may not look pretty but all I use now are Glocks and Sigs. They are both simply and operate very well. I looked into the M&P's and love the .40/.357 Sig models in full size and compact. Honestly though, if the OP is considering the two, I recommend going for what fits your hand first, and the price both go hand in hand.

Everywhere I shop the M&P is more money, I've never seen it lower unless it was a used model. These Glock vs XD/M&P/HK/Sig threads seem to get old very quickly. Most of the time people haven't even held them, I recommend doing that and then shooting preferably.

In any case to the OP, I recommend the Glock. Its a fantastic platform, in 9mm, 10mm or .357 Sig I personally think there the most ideal pistols. Sigs I tend to do go for the .45 and .40 due to the heaver weight of them, but they are more expensive. I also recommend trying the trigger reset on the Glocks and M&P's to give you a better idea of what you want for plinking. Glock has tons of aftermarket parts, great track record and warranty. Its really a win. If the gun just feels terrible in your hand, then that's a different story.....

[ruchik]

I never said that they didn't. What I am saying is that considering in order to get to those little parts and springs, you would have to fully disassemble the gun, which any sane individual would only do when time allowed, not in the middle of a fight for your life. In the grander scheme of things, I believe it's more important to the OP how well the gun shoots, not how well it completely disassembles or reassembles.

[Shenaniguns]

tacticalcity:

I firmly believe one needs to shoot or at least hold the gun he or she is contemplating purchasing. I am not disagreeing with your post of how important it is to learn reset, techniques, so on and so forth, but surely having a gun that feels "right" to you would only help learning said techniques? Why use a gun that you don't like the feel of and train with that, as opposed to using a gun you do like the feel of? Again, the feel of a trigger, the reset, ease of draw, etc. are all very subjective. What works for you may not work for someone else. What you perceive as a terrible reset may be perfectly acceptable to someone else. Yes, with more experience you will able to tell differences between guns, but at that point you may as well have been training with the gun that felt natural at the start. I'm not bashing Glocks, I believe they are wonderful firearms. But for some, the feel is so unnatural (like me) that they would, as you said, be fighting the firearm. Why train with a gun that you're constantly fighting because it doesn't feel right? You could be that much better using a gun that feels right to you to begin with.

To the OP, ultimately you will buy what makes YOU happy. You will be more inclined to train with it and take pride of ownership in a gun that you truly like.

It is not 'acceptable' unless you do not use the reset since it barely exists, there is also a false click that makes so many people short stroke the trigger during 'rapid' fire.