9mm vs. 45 ACP

[JTROKS]

The answer to the 9mm vs 45 debate is the 40S&W. Most folks in CA are limited to having 10 round mags.

[-hanko]

Then don't read it..

The solution is searching before you post...you're saying you've been here almost a year and never read the monotonous '.45 v. 9mm' posts??

Your 21 you've been an adult for 3 years now. I think you should be able to make this decision.

Not only that. How the hell can anyone else recommend the perfect pistol for YOU??

Sorry that some people here can't just try to answer your question in a useful way instead of wasting everyone's time by posting a useless suggestion to search somewhere else. I thought that asking questions for advice is what Calguns is for. Not everyone's question can be answered the way they want by reading old threads in other places.

OK, now I understand. Post the same old questions over and over and get the same answers that were in the old threads in other places?? I'm all for helping those with questions, but I'd think it's reasonable to expect a little effort on the part of the newb beforehand.

Not an old timer, but sometimes if you're just turning 21 you might not be used to the internet...
So...Help, I can't search the web



-hanko

[Toast]

Take this video with a grain of salt. The density of a stack of cards is much higher than living animal tissue. 9mm is the smart choice all things considered but do use hollow points for personal protection!

I bet if he tried to stab the stack of cards with a knife he couldn't get much penetration at all, which makes that test even more stupid.

[bsg]

if you want 9mm... check out the older P series Sig Sauer examples. i'd also suggest you consider a G17 or G19.

if you want .45 ACP... check out older w german/german Sig Sauer P220; you can't go wrong with it if the ergonomics fit you and your gf; the Sig is one handgun that will feel good to those with small and large hands.

research and try any handgun you will possibly purchase... prior to the purchase.

[SexPistol]

The solution is searching before you post...you're saying you've been here almost a year and never read the monotonous '.45 v. 9mm' posts??

Search engine wasn't working when I posted this and I never really bothered to read the handgun section until recently because I wasn't 21 yet and was more interested in reading into info about my AR or the hunting section.

[goodlookin1]

A picture is worth a thousand words:



Dont be a fool: Choose the right (caliber)

For those that say "shot placement": Not everyone can be a super ninja with spidey-like senses to place a single deadly shot in the perfect little place on a moving/running/jumping target, while the adrenaline's pumping and nerves are kicked into high gear. I think most shooters, especially combat veterans, would agree that no amount of range practice can fully nor adequately prepare you for how you will react when the situation is real. Yes, shot placement is critical, and one should do all they can to ensure that they can put a shot where they want it to go. But let's be realistic, you're not gonna sit there and aim your shot right in the perfect area of the heart or head: You're gonna be aiming for ""body MOA". Having a greater chance of damaging a critical area on a target due to a caliber's larger hydrostatic shock should be a no-brainer. Why not opt for the more damaging bullet AND practice more with it? Get your shot placement down, then if that fails, maybe the increased bullet size will do it

[tacticalcity]

They all look pretty damn close in the picture above. It's not like one has a wound channel that is so radically better than the others that it is equal to two or three hits from the smaller rounds.

I would argue that the number of shots you can accurately (and by that I mean center mass hits) get in the shortest possible amount of time is a consideration as well. The felt recoil of the .40S&W really slows me down, even more so than a .45ACP.

With a 9mm I can get twice as many good center mass hits, causing drastically more damage than I could with a .40S&W or .45ACP. That's while training from concealment, from a holster, in a dynamic environment meant to do its best to simulate the confusion and stress of real life (admittedly nothing is 100% realistic but we do our best).

So it all comes down to how you look at it. Sure, you might only get one good hit in which case I would agree the larger the round the better. But I train to try and get as many good hits as quickly as I can. 9mm translates to considerably more well placed hits for me than .40S&W or .45ACP, and those extra hits do far more damage than fewer hits with a larger round.

Something to bear in mind. The human body is really good at dealing with a single wound....especially if it is not a vital organ. All the white blood cells rush to that wound, and that area goes numb and the hostile is able to continue the fight. That is why too good of a shot placement is a bad idea (not that it is humanly possible to do so on purpose unless you are lying in wait). If you have one hit right on top of another, the human body treats that as if it is one wound and is able to deal with it pretty well. However if your hits are several inches apart or more, the body is not able to treat it as one wound and no longer able to deal with it efficiently. The more wounds you deliver the quicker the body is going to begin to shutdown and go into shock even if a vital organ is not hit.

Of course, the right amount of pharmaceutical assistance and all that goes out the window...meaning if he is whacked out on speed or the like and all bets are off. So I hope you have been practicing your head shots.

The shorter answer is, there is no right answer. It is all in how you look at it.

[Prenub]

Considering its your 1st gun, I would suggest a 9 mm. Its a great trainer for a higher caliber and Ammo is cheaper than a 45 acp. For home defense, just buy a shotgun.

[M1A Rifleman]

Choose the one with more energy at up to 25 yds for defense. Velocity will not matter, look at the energy.

[tacticalcity]

Whatever you get, taking a professional training course will teach you how to use it properly. Check out the COMPETITION & TRAINING sub-forum here on Calguns.net for a school near you. Just buying the gun and plinking at the range will not prepare you for real life.

[Lead Waster]

With 10rd magazines being the legal limit, it kind of kills the "17 rounds of 9mm vs 13 rounds of .45" argument. (Or in the extreme 17 rounds 9mm vs 7 rounds from a 1911). Some will argue that 10rds .45 > 10rds of 9mm.

Are you just punching paper? a .22 will do. If you want something that feels like you are shooting, get a 9mm. Are you American? Why even ask, get a .45 ;P (j/k!)

[goodlookin1]

They all look pretty damn close in the picture above. It's not like one has a wound channel that is so radically better than the others that it is equal to two or three hits from the smaller rounds.

I would argue that the number of shots you can accurately (and by that I mean center mass hits) get in the shortest possible amount of time is a consideration as well. The felt recoil of the .40S&W really slows me down, even more so than a .45ACP.

With a 9mm I can get twice as many good center mass hits, causing drastically more damage than I could with a .40S&W or .45ACP. That's while training from concealment, from a holster, in a dynamic environment meant to do its best to simulate the confusion and stress of real life (admittedly nothing is 100% realistic but we do our best).

So it all comes down to how you look at it. Sure, you might only get one good hit in which case I would agree the larger the round the better. But I train to try and get as many good hits as quickly as I can. 9mm translates to considerably more well placed hits for me than .40S&W or .45ACP, and those extra hits do far more damage than fewer hits with a larger round.

Something to bear in mind. The human body is really good at dealing with a single wound....especially if it is not a vital organ. All the white blood cells rush to that wound, and that area goes numb and the hostile is able to continue the fight. That is why too good of a shot placement is a bad idea (not that it is humanly possible to do so on purpose unless you are lying in wait). If you have one hit right on top of another, the human body treats that as if it is one wound and is able to deal with it pretty well. However if your hits are several inches apart or more, the body is not able to treat it as one wound and no longer able to deal with it efficiently. The more wounds you deliver the quicker the body is going to begin to shutdown and go into shock even if a vital organ is not hit.

Of course, the right amount of pharmaceutical assistance and all that goes out the window...meaning if he is whacked out on speed or the like and all bets are off. So I hope you have been practicing your head shots.

The shorter answer is, there is no right answer. It is all in how you look at it.

Couple things...

The wound channels are not close at all. Not trying to be rude, but there is close to twice the difference in hydrostatic shock between the 9mm and anything else in that picture. However, penetration wise, they all met the required 12" (body penetration).

I believe you are spot on regarding how you came to your decision on choosing the 9mm, based on your performance with said caliber. 9mm isnt a bad round, but I dont believe it is ideal. But the fact that you shoot it faster and more accurately means that it is probably the best choice for you. There are bigger pro's to the 9mm in free states, like weight and round count, but I personally think that the 10 round limit makes the 40 or 45 more desirable, provided you can shoot it well...

[mt51]

Highly recommend you get a 9mm to start. If you're 21, chances are (I could very well be wrong) that ammo cost may be a factor to consider.

[pyromensch]

[QUOTE=-hanko;5366111]The solution is searching before you post...you're saying you've been here almost a year and never read the monotonous '.45 v. 9mm' posts??


Not only that. How the hell can anyone else recommend the perfect pistol for YOU??


not pistol, caliber. the pistol thing is another thread.

[eccvets]

the search is weak with this one!